Only in Middle School

[Stat-Man]

Middle School 7th grade girls.

Player receives pass
Player drives down court ... in wrong driection.
Officials are so astounded, they forget to call a backcourt violation after she crossed the timeline

At least nothing bad came of it.

[Ref in PA]

I had this happen in a boys JV game on a rebound after a missed free throw. The A2 rebounded the miss by A1, turned, and dribbled up court. I was the original trail official and held my ground until the back court violation was committed. So this play is not limited to middle school.

[zebraman]

Oh yes, and it can even be worse. I was officiating a very intense varsity rivalry game a couple years ago. Gym packed, back and forth game. I think it was in the second quarter. Partner (2-person game) calls a held ball so I give him the direction signal so it's white ball. I administer a few subs and then nod at him that it's OK to administer the throw-in. He hands the ball to a player in red and I hesitate. That doesn't seem right. Red throws the ball in and I'm still thinking that it should be white ball. I'm 90% sure, but don't want to blow my whistle yet... and then I'm 100% sure so I blow my whistle as red crosses half court. We correctly give the ball back to white. My partner was more red than the jersey of the visiting team.

Z

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by zebraman
Oh yes, and it can even be worse. I was officiating a very intense varsity rivalry game a couple years ago. Gym packed, back and forth game. I think it was in the second quarter. Partner (2-person game) calls a held ball so I give him the direction signal so it's white ball. I administer a few subs and then nod at him that it's OK to administer the throw-in. He hands the ball to a player in red and I hesitate. That doesn't seem right. Red throws the ball in and I'm still thinking that it should be white ball. I'm 90% sure, but don't want to blow my whistle yet... and then I'm 100% sure so I blow my whistle as red crosses half court. We correctly give the ball back to white. My partner was more red than the jersey of the visiting team.

Z

Two questions, Z...

1) How does this relate to the original post?

2) Did you really call the ball back because you'd given it to the wrong team? That's not according to Hoyle...

[zebraman]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Two questions, Z...

1) How does this relate to the original post?

2) Did you really call the ball back because you'd given it to the wrong team? That's not according to Hoyle...

1) Well, the original post was about some referee confusion and teams going the wrong way. Are you feeling the need to be picky and argumentative this morning?

2) Common sense often trumps Hoyle.

Z

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by zebraman
2) Common sense often trumps Hoyle.

Unless the coach happens to know Hoyle. The coach is gonna be pissed b/c you took the ball away from his team. He may look it up or ask around. If he finds out you did it wrong, that could be a problem for you.

You can never get in trouble by applying the rules correctly. JMO.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Unless the coach happens to know Hoyle. The coach is gonna be pissed b/c you took the ball away from his team. He may look it up or ask around. If he finds out you did it wrong, that could be a problem for you.

You can never get in trouble by applying the rules correctly. JMO.

Common sense worked fine. There were no problems. There would have been a complete hornet's nest if we would have allowed red to go score a layup on the confused white team because the official's gave the ball to the wrong team after correctly awarding it to white. Common sense officiating often trumps Hoyle. Black and white officials often have lots of problems in game administration. I have a hard time believing that you would have just let red score. Besides, it you want to get "rulesy" about it, you can re-read my post and see that I recognized the mistake before the ball was inbounded (so before the throw-in was completed) and I just had a delayed whistle.

Z



[Edited by zebraman on Sep 27th, 2005 at 11:27 AM]

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by zebraman
Common sense worked fine. There were no problems. There would have been a complete hornet's nest if we would have allowed red to go score a layup on the confused white team because the official's gave the ball to the wrong team after correctly awarding it to white. Common sense officiating often trumps Hoyle.

I'm glad that you didn't have problems. But if the coach happens to know the rule, you're screwed. That's all I'm saying.

I have a hard time believing that you would have just let red score.

Not to be holier-than-thou, but I would've blown my whistle before the red kid got the ball. I'd rather say "Wait a minute" and be wrong, than let it go and have to do what you had to do.

Besides, it you want to get "rulesy" about it, you can re-read my post and see that I recognized the mistake before the ball was inbounded (so before the throw-in was completed) and I just had a delayed whistle.

I'm not sure that matters. According to the casebook play (6-4-1), I believe that once the throw-in pass is touched inbounds, the mistake cannot be corrected.

[zebraman]

Chuck,

I'm sure you've never had a moment of hesitation in any of your games. Maybe I'll achieve that elite level someday.

Z

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I'm glad that you didn't have problems. But if the coach happens to know the rule, you're screwed. That's all I'm saying.

Not to be holier-than-thou, but I would've blown my whistle before the red kid got the ball. I'd rather say "Wait a minute" and be wrong, than let it go and have to do what you had to do.

I'm not sure that matters. According to the casebook play (6-4-1), I believe that once the throw-in pass is touched inbounds, the mistake cannot be corrected.

Even if you don't correct it, there's nothing stopping you from blowing the whistle and letting red keep the throwin just to let white get back on defense. That would at least keep the error from being too costly.

[JRutledge]

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by zebraman
Chuck,

I'm sure you've never had a moment of hesitation in any of your games. Maybe I'll achieve that elite level someday.

Z

Z, this is silly. The only way we learn is to break down our own plays, be they good, bad or indifferent. Obviously Chuck's suggestion to hit the whistle as soon as you were unsure would have been the best course, just as obviously you didn't take the best course. We've all been there. For the record you did the next best thing IMO - fix the damn play as soon as you realize what happened & get on with it. If coach Red knows the rule & complains tell him to call your assigner or interpretor after the game to complain but he aint getting the ball.

BTW, what I am curious about is did either or both coaches know what was happening? I imagine Coach White was standing by his bench wondering just whatinthehell was going on.

[zebraman]

Dan,

Well I know the best course of action would have been to crack the whistle right away. I think I could reply to a lot of posts on this board with, "well, I would have done it exactly right the first time instead." Not sure that helps anyone though and it really does come off as holier-than-thou.

There had been several substitutions during this dead ball so both coaches were just kind of standing there, watching their respective offense and defense prepare for the throw-in and not really paying much attention to my partner. As soon as I hit my whistle, both coaches realized what had happened and so did my red-faced partner. I walked toward the table and both coaches had figured it out by then and both were laughing. The P.A. announcer made a quick announcement "throw-in error, should be white ball" for the clued-out fans and we went on without incident.

I just don't get Chuck's take that we would have been screwed if the white coach had known the rule.

"Coach, I recognized it before the throw-in was complete but I hesitated due to my inherent insecurity." End of story.

How screwed would we have been had I let the play go on and then told the white coach, "Well sure coach, I recognized it before the pass was thrown, but by rule I'm not allowed to fix it once the ball is touched inbounds?" I think at that point, I start looking for the escort out of the gym.

Z

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by zebraman

1) Well, the original post was about some referee confusion and teams going the wrong way. Are you feeling the need to be picky and argumentative this morning?

Doesn't look like I'm the one that's being argumentative this morning...

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by zebraman
I just don't get Chuck's take that we would have been screwed if the white coach had known the rule.

He's under a lot of pressure these days, - his beloved Red Sox are about to go from leading the division for 4 months to out of the playoff picture.