Trick play, middle school. Your take...

[Fon_Win]

Corpus Christi

the snap was continous, and in a backward direction... which is one of the arguements against the wrong ball trick play.

[Welpe]

Can't tell for sure but I'd bet there was verbiage that led the defense to believe the snap was not imminent. Probably should have been shut down with a USC foul.

[KMBReferee]

According to the rules, it has to be a quick and continuous motion of the ball going backwards. That "snap" didn't meet any of those requirements.

The guy held up the ball and gave it to the runner. That's not backwards. Holding the ball for someone to grab it doesn't seem quick to me either.

I should note that the rule I'm referring to is under NFHS rules. Now the game happened in Texas. Don't they use NCAA rules there? I was told they did. If so, I don't know the exact rule on snaps in NCAA.

I saw this posted online, and I figured it would be here for discussion.

[GoodwillRef]

You can also see his coach yelling about the wrong ball and holding his hand up trying to get officials attention.

How many times are we (officials) going to miss this one?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Fon_Win

Corpus Christi

the snap was continous, and in a backward direction... which is one of the arguements against the wrong ball trick play.

No, the snap is not legal. It must be backwards ADN leave the snapper's hand IMMEDIATELY.

Further, there is verbiage designed to make the defense think there's a problem and that the ball won't be snapped.

This play is illegal.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Fon_Win

Corpus Christi

the snap was continous, and in a backward direction... which is one of the arguements against the wrong ball trick play.

I don't think that's the serious argument. I don't see anyone agitating for a Canadian style rule on snapping the ball because of such plays. This is why the head coach of the Pee Wee team I assist with practices defensive line going on any movement of the ball or the snapper's ball hand.

I'd just like to know what was said between the snapper and quarterback. That would determine whether it was an illegal play, and I think the current rule draws the line in the right place.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by KMBReferee

According to the rules, it has to be a quick and continuous motion of the ball going backwards. That "snap" didn't meet any of those requirements.

The guy held up the ball and gave it to the runner. That's not backwards. Holding the ball for someone to grab it doesn't seem quick to me either.

I should note that the rule I'm referring to is under NFHS rules. Now the game happened in Texas. Don't they use NCAA rules there? I was told they did. If so, I don't know the exact rule on snaps in NCAA.

On those criteria, NCAA's exactly the same. It's an old rule that predates the formation of the Federation.

The only criterion I think wasn't satisfied was the movement of the ball being quick. It was continuous (didn't stop & resume), backward, and left the snapper's hand without a pause in motion. The fact that the ball also moved upward doesn't mean it wasn't moving backward; follow its arc. The only problem seems to have been its lack of speed. and of course that's a matter of judgment. The fact that he could've moved the ball faster to get it to the same place to me would be the decisive factor in the snap's being illegal, because it looks like its slowness was intentional and unnecessary.

If you were to look at a conventional C-QB exchange, you'd probably call that holding the ball up for someone to grab too. The impetus for the release of the ball doesn't have to come from the snapper's hand(s). Even in rugby, when a player takes the ball from a tackled player who's holding it up, that's considered a release by the tackled player.

In the power wing -- which I just had a brief exchange with another coach on online -- one of the snaps is around the waist like that to a motioning back who takes the ball as it's held out.

[ajmc]

Since this game began, and as long as it will be played, there will be coaches trying to fiure out ways to do someting new and suprising. That's fine and is a big prt of what makes this game special.

However, it's rarely a good thing to surprise the game officals with what someone might "think" is a totally new interpretation and test it during live play. A smart coach, with a new, great idea, will review it thoroughly with the game officials prior to the game, it's going to be tested in, to make sure he (they) agree it's permissable.

I suspect a large majority of officials would shut this new and innovative idea down immdiately as a snap infraction. It may catch a few officials by surpise, but I wouldn't count on playslike this standing.

[JasonTX]

In Texas (NCAA) this should have been shut down as an illegal snap. There's a pretty good chance there was some verbiage by the coach and QB that would have turned this into an unsportsmanlike foul had the snap been legal. Since the snap didn't leave the snappers hands immediately this is a dead ball foul.

[ChickenOfNC]

Case book says ACTIONS or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into thinking there is a problem and the snap is not immenent is illegal.

To me, the act of the QB throwing his arms up, acting like there is a problem or confusion, would qualify, therefore I'm shutting this down and we'll have a UC on the coach.

Not to mention the legality of the "snap".

[Texas Aggie]

It must be backwards ADN leave the snapper's hand IMMEDIATELY.

There's no requirement that it leave the snapper's hand immediately (or you are unclear as to what you mean by that).

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by ChickenOfNC

Case book says ACTIONS or verbiage designed to confuse the defense into thinking there is a problem and the snap is not immenent is illegal.

To me, the act of the QB throwing his arms up, acting like there is a problem or confusion, would qualify, therefore I'm shutting this down and we'll have a UC on the coach.

Not to mention the legality of the "snap".

Exactly.

[ppaltice]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

There's no requirement that it leave the snapper's hand immediately (or you are unclear as to what you mean by that).

NFHS uses the verbiage "immediately leave the hands of the snapper."

NCAA requires the snap to be quick and continuous motions with the ball "actually leaving the hand or hands in this motion."

So the question under NCAA rules is: did the motion stop before the ball left the hand of the snapper?

[Rock Chalk]

do they only have 6 on the los? Would you count the WR on the right (top) on the line? he's nearly 2 yards behind the los.

[mbyron]

This play was shown ad nauseam on SportsCenter tonight (Monday) as well as on the MNF pre-game show.

Nobody pointed out that it's illegal.