Fake FG Question

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Mike L

I think you should seriously rethink that statement.

Although it has nothing really to do with officiating, your sentence structure is appalling. If you can't write well you will give the impression of not really knowing what it is you are talking about.

Apparently simply ignoring you isn't quite conveying the suggestion that I'm doing my level best to try and ignore you. Not that I agree with, or accept your analysis, but what is it that suggests to you that your ridiculous comments and apparent obsession with my grammer, or your perception of a lack thereof, has anything to do with ANYTHING that matters?

Have you ever considered finding a hobby, or volunteering somewhere?

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Apparently simply ignoring you isn't quite conveying the suggestion that I'm doing my level best to try and ignore you. Not that I agree with, or accept your analysis, but what is it that suggests to you that your ridiculous comments and apparent obsession with my grammer, or your perception of a lack thereof, has anything to do with ANYTHING that matters?

Have you ever considered finding a hobby, or volunteering somewhere?

Obviously you are not ignoring me or your best is grossly insufficient. And to which analysis are you referring? The one where I state you should rethink your statement that angle on the play does not matter or that your sentence structure is appalling?
Poor sentance structure and an inability to accurately convey your message on a written internet opinion board is analogous to showing up to a game with an ill fitting, dirty uniform and forgetting some equipment. No-one is going to believe you have the slightest idea what you are doing or what you are talking about.
Also, just to set the record straight, I believe this is the first or maybe the second time I've ever commented on your extremely sub-par writing ability. Perhaps in your world that qualifies as "obsession", of course you've shown time and again you live in quite a different world than the rest of us.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Obviously you are not ignoring me or your best is grossly insufficient. And to which analysis are you referring? The one where I state you should rethink your statement that angle on the play does not matter or that your sentence structure is appalling?
Poor sentance structure and an inability to accurately convey your message on a written internet opinion board is analogous to showing up to a game with an ill fitting, dirty uniform and forgetting some equipment. No-one is going to believe you have the slightest idea what you are doing or what you are talking about.
Also, just to set the record straight, I believe this is the first or maybe the second time I've ever commented on your extremely sub-par writing ability. Perhaps in your world that qualifies as "obsession", of course you've shown time and again you live in quite a different world than the rest of us.

I'm trying my best to ignore you, success is not guaranteed. Some challenges are more persistent than others and require more effort. Since the notion that moving in a few steps when a formation is on the other side of the field, somehow creates an "angle" problem for a wing official is really just silly, I must have been referencing your analysis of "sentence structure" whch simply doesn't matter.

My referene to "obsession" mght be directed at your often repeated attempts to try and make youself sound smart by focusing on insignificant trivia, which rarely matters nor relates, in any meaningful way, to whatever is being discussed which few likely care about. Whatever floats your boat, fills your sails, makes you feel happy or you think makes you sound smart.

What amazes me is that you would actually think that your impression of someone's "sentence structure" was a relevant or appropriate issue to inject in a discussion related to officiating mechanics. I might suggest, that to be effective, analogies need to make some degree of sense and relate somehow.

Now, I've answered your questions, might you answer one for me. Just how long are you prepared to continue beating a horse long past death, that has absolutely nothing to do with the original subject at hand? Could there possibly be a relevant point you are so feebly trying to make? Sorry, that's two questions.

Thanks for your advice on helping me communicate better, but somehow I've managed to muddle along OK to this point, although I continue to hold out hope that God's not yet finished with me.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Now, I've answered your questions, might you answer one for me. Just how long are you prepared to continue beating a horse long past death, that has absolutely nothing to do with the original subject at hand? Could there possibly be a relevant point you are so feebly trying to make?

Sure, no problem at all.

I'm willing to continue beating a horse as long as I'm think there's even the faintest possibility the horse may eventually see the errors of his ways. Perhaps it's because I'm a romantic optimist or have some hope for the betterment of my fellow officials no matter how obstinately they hold to their error filled opinion. In your case, that hope is quickly fading. But I can always pursue the dream that the nonsensical ravings of your lunatic mind will not infect those newer officials that stumble upon your rants if they also have the chance to see my counterpoints.

My relevant point remains, your statement that "but angle has nothing to do with anything" is ridiculously wrong. It does not matter how you attempt to hide it by either your tortured writing or logic.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Sure, no problem at all.

I'm willing to continue beating a horse as long as I'm think there's even the faintest possibility the horse may eventually see the errors of his ways.

My relevant point remains, your statement that "but angle has nothing to do with anything" is ridiculously wrong. It does not matter how you attempt to hide it by either your tortured writing or logic.

I'm always willing to be educated, Mike, perhaps you could explain how moving forward a maximum of 18', (the distance from the sidline to the numbers) when the ball might be moved a maximum of 53' 4" farther away (the distance between the near and far hash marks) presents an "angle" problem. If I follow your superior logic, are you recommending that when a ball is snapped from the near hash mark, the best position, so as to avoid angle problems, would be 18' beyond the sideline ?

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I'm always willing to be educated, Mike, perhaps you could explain how moving forward a maximum of 18', (the distance from the sidline to the numbers) when the ball might be moved a maximum of 53' 4" farther away (the distance between the near and far hash marks) presents an "angle" problem. If I follow your superior logic, are you recommending that when a ball is snapped from the near hash mark, the best position, so as to avoid angle problems, would be 18' beyond the sideline ?

First, the location of the ball on the opposite sideline is irrelevant to you because you have no responsibility for the ball when that happens. You are responsible for backside action and the wider you are the wider your view of this action. That is a very good thing. Second, your angle may not be any different on this particular play but I don't think that's the point of Mike's comments. For an official to ever use the words "angle has nothing to do with anything" shows you are missing a very important aspect of officiating mechanics. We have officials in different positions largely because of angles. Keys are based largely on angles. Angles are a very important aspect of officiating.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

For an official to ever use the words "angle has nothing to do with anything" shows you are missing a very important aspect of officiating mechanics. We have officials in different positions largely because of angles. Keys are based largely on angles. Angles are a very important aspect of officiating.

For ANYBODY to take something completely out of context and try and apply it to an entirely different topic is....disingenuous. In the conversation it was included, "angle" is clearly not an issue. In many other aspects of officiating, of course, angle can be very important.

For an official to try and twist someone's words around to suggest something they were not intended to, or reasonably relate to, suggests you might be missing a very important aspect of officiating, which is addressing a question honestly.

If you have a pimple bothering you, do us both a favor and simply pop the pimple rather than just keep on picking at it.

[jaybird]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I'm always willing to be educated, Mike, perhaps you could explain how moving forward a maximum of 18', (the distance from the sidline to the numbers)..

18' huh? A lot of things must be different in your world.
The numbers around here are 9 yards from the sideline.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Since the notion that moving in a few steps when a formation is on the other side of the field, somehow creates an "angle" problem for a wing official is really just silly

What an interesting argument. Change what I say, and then call it silly. Many call that a straw-man argument. I was saying that angle is more important than distance, and creeping out onto the field to get more distance really isn't helping you at all.

[mcarr]

Start off the field, period. Whether you are working 3, 4, 5 or 7.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mcarr

Start off the field, period. Whether you are working 3, 4, 5 or 7.

Yeah, I don't see the point of not doing so.

I try not to take games with 3 officials anymore, but one game we had a guy not show up, so we did it with 3. I worked WH and had the other two guys work wing and I spotted the football. I decided I'd rather have to work a bit harder than have the wings feel they needed to pinch in unnecessarily to spot the ball and get in the way. Besides, it got me a little more exercise, which is always a good thing.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

What an interesting argument. Change what I say, and then call it silly. Many call that a straw-man argument. I was saying that angle is more important than distance, and creeping out onto the field to get more distance really isn't helping you at all.

Mike, I didn't change anything you said. I can understand "upon further review" you might want to. If you believe "angle" is more important than distance, and creeping out onto the field to get more distance really isn't helping you at all", that's fine, but doesn't therefore make it universal, or accurate for all and every situation.

The "straw man" in this argument is the notion of "angle". Despite it's importance in many other aspects of what we do, it's simply not a significant factor in what we were originally discussing. I tried to be very clear that I agreed with starting out on a sideline is absolutely the basic position for a wing official on a Varsity level game, but that adjusting that positioning for specific formations and specific situations is absolutely NOT the WRONG thing to do. If that's your preference, fine, knock yourself out, but castigating others for differing with your assessment places you out beyond the reach of your own headlights.

As for camping on the sideline at the Youth Football level, while judgment and judicious application is always paramount, camping on a sideline at these levels is an effective way to take yourself completely out of the game.

As for 3 man configurations; I'm embarrassed to admit we still work 3 man at sub-varsity levels, and have so for over 40 years. We have tried every variation and repositioning possible, from the standard R-U-L to the recommended goal line formations of R-L-LJ throuout the game, and after all these years of application and testing variations have concluded (beyond the shadow of a doubt) 3 man mechanics is simply inadequate and long obsolete for today's game. You just can't draw a diamond with only 3 dots. Either a flank is exposed or the middle winds up being ignored, and trying to split the Umpire between both usually only produces half a$$ed coverage for both the middle and a sideline. (We've been using 4-man configuration at the Youth Football levels for over a decade).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ajmc

As for camping on the sideline at the Youth Football level, while judgment and judicious application is always paramount, camping on a sideline at these levels is an effective way to take yourself completely out of the game.

Who's talking about camping out there? There's nothing that prevents an official from coming in when marking a spot or anytime else it's necessary.

*Starting* at the numbers is what we're talking about -- it's just putting yourself closer for no good reason. I can see a hold by my key (tackle) from the sideline just as well as I can from 15 feet closer.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Who's talking about camping out there? There's nothing that prevents an official from coming in when marking a spot or anytime else it's necessary.

*Starting* at the numbers is what we're talking about -- it's just putting yourself closer for no good reason. I can see a hold by my key (tackle) from the sideline just as well as I can from 15 feet closer.

And that pretty much sums up the situation. There is no great advantage gained by a flank official starting the play out in the field but there are a number of potential disadvantages. So why do it?
I can't even fathom how someone could possibly think being correctly at the sideline somehow takes yourself completely out of the game. Almost as bad as stating angle has nothing to do with anything.

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by ajmc

As for 3 man configurations; I'm embarrassed to admit we still work 3 man at sub-varsity levels, and have so for over 40 years. We have tried every variation and repositioning possible, from the standard R-U-L to the recommended goal line formations of R-L-LJ throuout the game, and after all these years of application and testing variations have concluded (beyond the shadow of a doubt) 3 man mechanics is simply inadequate and long obsolete for today's game. You just can't draw a diamond with only 3 dots. Either a flank is exposed or the middle winds up being ignored, and trying to split the Umpire between both usually only produces half a$$ed coverage for both the middle and a sideline. (We've been using 4-man configuration at the Youth Football levels for over a decade).

You think that's bad? All of the subvarsity around here is either 3-man or 2-man (yes, there are some smaller schools that will only pay for two officials for a JV game).

It's especially funny to me when coaches come up to me and say something like "My nose tackle is getting held on every play". To which I respnd "Coach, if you want the officials to see and call that, you need to have AT LEAST 3 of us".