Fake FG Question

[ITOWN]

Originally Posted by mbyron

This would be a running play, so the clock would not stop unless it was 4th down and the series ended. For your play, the clock would surely expire.

I thought it would be ruled an incomplete pass. Why would it be considered a running play but blown dead then start on the ready?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by ITOWN

I thought it would be ruled an incomplete pass. Why would it be considered a running play but blown dead then start on the ready?

The runner is down because his knee is on the ground and he has lost his exception. The play is blown dead, but the clock is not stopped.

[Reffing Rev.]

Last year week 8 pregame coach asked if this play was legal, and I explained that the holder had to rise to pitch or pass and he said that makes it 4 and 4. 4 WH had told them that season it was legal. (What really bothers me is that 2 of th em I know are working tonight and my season ended after 1st round.)

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

Last year week 8 pregame coach asked if this play was legal, and I explained that the holder had to rise to pitch or pass and he said that makes it 4 and 4. 4 WH had told them that season it was legal. (What really bothers me is that 2 of th em I know are working tonight and my season ended after 1st round.)

I wouldn't lose any sleep over that. You don't know how the play was described to anyone else, or what exact answer was given. For example: "is it legal for a holder to pitch or pass?" The WH's might have said "Yes, provided he rises first," and "No, unless he rises first."

And all the coach heard was "Yes, blah blah blah," and "No, blah blah blah."

[Rich]

I'm guessing the coaches asked the right question and the white hats showed that they never open the case book, myself.

[bisonlj]

And my answer would have been, "Yes it's legal. There is no foul for having your knee on the ground. The down is just over."

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

And my answer would have been, "Yes it's legal. There is no foul for having your knee on the ground. The down is just over."

Good point. Might confuse a coach, though.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I'm guessing the coaches asked the right question and the white hats showed that they never open the case book, myself.

It amazes me how many crews in this area go out and work on Friday nights with a very poor understanding of rules, case plays, and especially penalty enforcement.

I talked to a coach prior to a playoff game last week (I was the WH). He works college basketball and *gets* officiating. We have a common officiating friend/colleague (who posts here) and he told me of 3 or 4 enforcements this season that simply befuddled him. As an assistant coach, he wasn't able to convince the head coach to take a time out for a conference and, like he said, if the WH enforced the penalty wrong in the first place, who's to say he would be convinced by the head coach anyway?

Since the main factor in playoff assigning is "coach rating" here, some of those crews will be working deep into the playoffs. I saw on the highlights last week a crew that had a wing position himself on the numbers when the ball was snapped on the opposite hashmark. In the same set of highlights, I saw another crew where a wing didn't go straight to the goal line with a ball snapped at the 4 and ended up signaling a TD from the 2 yard line.

Last season we worked a first round playoff game where the visiting team (from another area) came out on offense and only had 4 players with numbers 50-79 in the game. Flag. Next play: Another flag. Then I got the linesman to get the coach to take a timeout so we could get this fixed before the game became a farce. All season the crews working their games ignored the numbering rules or just didn't know them or pay attention to them.

In other words, nothing surprises me anymore.

But I'm trying to make things better. I've been the football meeting coordinator of my association for the past two years and I've shown a lot of video and tried to get people talking and learning. But we're a state where association membership is only "recommended" and has no relation to assigning or playoff eligibility. So most of the people that are there are ones that already do things right or really want to. When in Rome....

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It amazes me how many crews in this area go out and work on Friday nights with a very poor understanding of rules, case plays, and especially penalty enforcement.

I talked to a coach prior to a playoff game last week (I was the WH). He works college basketball and *gets* officiating. We have a common officiating friend/colleague (who posts here) and he told me of 3 or 4 enforcements this season that simply befuddled him. As an assistant coach, he wasn't able to convince the head coach to take a time out for a conference and, like he said, if the WH enforced the penalty wrong in the first place, who's to say he would be convinced by the head coach anyway?

Since the main factor in playoff assigning is "coach rating" here, some of those crews will be working deep into the playoffs. I saw on the highlights last week a crew that had a wing position himself on the numbers when the ball was snapped on the opposite hashmark. In the same set of highlights, I saw another crew where a wing didn't go straight to the goal line with a ball snapped at the 4 and ended up signaling a TD from the 2 yard line.

Last season we worked a first round playoff game where the visiting team (from another area) came out on offense and only had 4 players with numbers 50-79 in the game. Flag. Next play: Another flag. Then I got the linesman to get the coach to take a timeout so we could get this fixed before the game became a farce. All season the crews working their games ignored the numbering rules or just didn't know them or pay attention to them.

In other words, nothing surprises me anymore.

But I'm trying to make things better. I've been the football meeting coordinator of my association for the past two years and I've shown a lot of video and tried to get people talking and learning. But we're a state where association membership is only "recommended" and has no relation to assigning or playoff eligibility. So most of the people that are there are ones that already do things right or really want to. When in Rome....

It's a shame we don't work and live closer together....I've echoed these sentiments for years. As we discussed, there's crews I know well that let a QB off the hook in HS for grounding the ball OOB because he's out of the tackle box. Astounding is putting it lightly...and they can't figure out why they never get a playoff assignment, or deeper than Level 1 anyway.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

?

I saw on the highlights last week a crew that had a wing position himself on the numbers when the ball was snapped on the opposite hashmark.

Unless there were players split out towards his side, what is wrong with a wing official moving in off the sideline when the formation is on the opposite side of the field?

I don't know what size crew you are accustomed to, but in a 4 man crew being able to remain out on the sideline, for all types of formations, doesn't work all that well. The same is true for 5 man crews. Obviously, that official is responsible to understand his limitations and ability to retreat, should the play come his way, or reverse towards him, but when a team is running inside consistently and the ball is snapped on the opposite hash mark, you need the off side official "in the game" retaher than parked on a distant sideline.