25/40 Play clock

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Because it is not administered consistently. There are already examples of people that do the clock not understanding things or doing something different. So not sure this rule is making things automatically consistently either, especially if not everyone can see the function of the clock.

Peace

I don't understand why clock operators are having issues. It's pretty easy. Play ends, reset the play clock and start. There isn't any more to it than that. if the crew has an administrative stop for some reason or there there was a change of possession/score. set it to 25 and wait for the ready. If you aren't sure set it to 40 and roll it. If there is a stop for some reason the R will give you a pump to set it to 25. The game clock is never rolling at that point so you aren't affecting that at all.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I don't understand why clock operators are having issues. It's pretty easy. Play ends, reset the play clock and start. There isn't any more to it than that. if the crew has an administrative stop for some reason or there there was a change of possession/score. set it to 25 and wait for the ready. If you aren't sure set it to 40 and roll it. If there is a stop for some reason the R will give you a pump to set it to 25. The game clock is never rolling at that point so you aren't affecting that at all.

I do not know what to tell you. Clock operators at every sport I have ever done do not always do their job. Why? Not paying attention? Not focused at all times? On their phones? Think they have been doing this for a long time they will not screw up? Never done this before in life? Talking to someone else? I have no idea why, but it happens and happens more than I would like. I just know it was not perfectly done in college games, so why do we think that a high school game everything is going to be perfect?

Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I don't understand why clock operators are having issues. It's pretty easy. Play ends, reset the play clock and start. There isn't any more to it than that. .

Not exactly, but since you asked. The biggest obstacle to consistent Clock operation is....Distractions, which there is an unending, imaginative supply of. Like any other Officiating duty, focus is an acquired skill. Having the advantage (blessing) of working in an area where former Officials (1950s-60s) convinced schools that where field game clocks were used, they would be manned by ONLY certified, active Officials, which has served to minimize problems(and complaints) well.

However some general problems/issues persist and require special attention:

VISIBILITY: Some/many/most HS stadium Press boxes are not as high as we'd like, which causes problems seeing wing officials on both sidelines, especially the closest one, so "signalling" becomes really important. In a perfect world, when any official signals "incomplete" or "Stop the clock", ALL their crew mates repeat their signals, which aids the clock operator in seeing the signal. Some fields have MUCH BETTER lights, than others.

One of everyone's favorite improvements was the conversion to black official's pants, BUT (sadly) they disappear into the background more than the old white knickers, so clear, repetitive signalling has become more important.

Wing officials can get lost in front of either side "Team areas", so the consistently repeated signals of interior field officials is important, especially when the signal may be away from/behind the action. An extra swipe of a TO signal can be very helpful. Some fields allow a lot more people (cheerleaders, special guests, wanderers) along the rest of the sidelines (who tend to congregate along the goal line extended (when allowed to) which further hampers visibility & limits sideline officials movement (and safety)

Although a lot of different people are interested in what & when you signal, remember the ONE you're directing the signal to, is the clock operator. It's not a bad idea, when signalling note the time on the clock, which can help avoid some BS argument efforts. If the clock doesn't stop immediately, KEEP SIGNALLING until it does.

For better, or worse, we're all considered part of the same crew, are dependent on each other, and likely still searching for our FIRST perfect game (no matter how long we've been doing it).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Not exactly, but since you asked. The biggest obstacle to consistent Clock operation is....Distractions, which there is an unending, imaginative supply of. Like any other Officiating duty, focus is an acquired skill. Having the advantage (blessing) of working in an area where former Officials (1950s-60s) convinced schools that where field game clocks were used, they would be manned by ONLY certified, active Officials, which has served to minimize problems(and complaints) well.

That would be something that would help us, but often it is some guy that has been around the program or was thrown in to help the clock. I think this would help as we have people then that know or have a great understanding of rules and mechanics. Unfortunately, no one values this position from the school point of view until something bad happens. Even at the college level, we get people that have never played football, let alone know the clock rules. So we are dealing with some interesting issues.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That would be something that would help us, but often it is some guy that has been around the program or was thrown in to help the clock. I think this would help as we have people then that know or have a great understanding of rules and mechanics. Unfortunately, no one values this position from the school point of view until something bad happens. Even at the college level, we get people that have never played football, let alone know the clock rules. So we are dealing with some interesting issues.

Peace

I am a HS AD now and I can tell you that we pay our clock operator the exact same as we pay the ticket taker. When I lived in the south, we had a certified official work the clock, but they also got paid as part of the officiating crew. Not going to happen here.

It's a habit for me to look at the clock EVERY TIME it's stopped or started, best I can. And we have to fix the time a fair amount, too. It's just what it is. Changing our mechanics like someone in this thread suggests isn't going to fix this. Hell, I'm always out in the open when I wind the clock and it doesn't always start, either.

The thing that bothers me the most is the operator who thinks he knows better than me and doesn't realize that he gets to make zero judgments -- he doesn't get to say "he hasn't spotted the ball so I won't start the clock" -- when I wind, it should start. That's the operator's job, to do what we tell him to do.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ajmc

In a perfect world, when any official signals "incomplete" or "Stop the clock", ALL their crew mates repeat their signals, which aids the clock operator in seeing the signal. Some fields have MUCH BETTER lights, than others.

My God, no. The covering official signals. He's the only one who blows his whistle, too.

Originally Posted by ajmc

An extra swipe of a TO signal can be very helpful.

If by extra you mean no more than 2, I agree. [/quote]

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Rich

My God, no. The covering official signals. He's the only one who blows his whistle, too. If by extra you mean no more than 2, I agree.

[/QUOTE]

I'm surprised, that may be related to which version of Rome you happen to work in. EACH/ALL the locations I've worked in (6) recommended 3 swipes for a TO signal and wanted ALL the field officials to repeat both the whistle & signal when ANY official killed the play (& clock) so that everybody, no matter where they were on the field, knew the play was over, the ball was dead and all the action should STOP.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I'm surprised, that may be related to which version of Rome you happen to work in. EACH/ALL the locations I've worked in (6) recommended 3 swipes for a TO signal and wanted ALL the field officials to repeat both the whistle & signal when ANY official killed the play (& clock) so that everybody, no matter where they were on the field, knew the play was over, the ball was dead and all the action should STOP.

Oh God no. Never told to repeat a signal or whistle. If you recognized the ball is dead, we could have multiple whistles, but not unless you are clearly ruling it that way. Otherwise, the calling official will have the only signal and whistle. Now with a first down gained, then it might be multiple officials because you have recognized this takes place, but not just because someone else gives the signal. But for the most part, you do nothing in those cases. Same goes for a TD signal. Only the covering official(s) give the signal. So if that means one official gives the signal, then that is all we need. I even tell the clock people you might have to look for one official doing something, we are not repeating or mirroring such situations.

Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Oh God no. Never told to repeat a signal or whistle. If you recognized the ball is dead, we could have multiple whistles, but not unless you are clearly ruling it that way. we are not repeating or mirroring such situations. Peace

Didn't mean to apply "mirroring" someone else's signals is appropriate, It's generally not, with the exception of STOPPING play. That 1st whistle ENDS the play EVERYWHERE, right, wrong or indifferent. Secondary whistles simply announce to everyone else that the play HAS BEEN ended (so EVERYONE should stop playing, and hopefully avoid doing something unnecessary, now that the ball has been declared DEAD.)

Inside officials (Umpire, Referee, opposite Wing) repeating TO signals can be extremely helpful in avoiding unnecessary problems with delayed clock stoppages caused by the initial signal not being visible to the clock operator (especially when a wing official may be obscured by the congestion in the Team Box area.)

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Didn't mean to apply "mirroring" someone else's signals is appropriate, It's generally not, with the exception of STOPPING play. That 1st whistle ENDS the play EVERYWHERE, right, wrong or indifferent. Secondary whistles simply announce to everyone else that the play HAS BEEN ended (so EVERYONE should stop playing, and hopefully avoid doing something unnecessary, now that the ball has been declared DEAD.)

Inside officials (Umpire, Referee, opposite Wing) repeating TO signals can be extremely helpful in avoiding unnecessary problems with delayed clock stoppages caused by the initial signal not being visible to the clock operator (especially when a wing official may be obscured by the congestion in the Team Box area.)

As a clock operator for college, I can say that having multiple officials stopping the clock can help -- especially when the play ends near one sideline (so I am watching that official to see if the play ended in bounds or out of bounds) and an official not near the play has a stoppage (TO from the "opposite" team, or a flag away from the play, for example). If more officials echo the stop clock, I am more likely to pick it up sooner.

OTOH, it can also be confusing: a fumble, a scrum, the ball ends up near the line to gain, one official peers in the pile and winds the clock; another comes running in and stops the clock; 5 others do nothing (I am sure they are doing something--just nothing that affects the clock).

And, yes, -- there's a lot going on up there, and most of us are wearing multiple hats during the game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Didn't mean to apply "mirroring" someone else's signals is appropriate, It's generally not, with the exception of STOPPING play. That 1st whistle ENDS the play EVERYWHERE, right, wrong or indifferent. Secondary whistles simply announce to everyone else that the play HAS BEEN ended (so EVERYONE should stop playing, and hopefully avoid doing something unnecessary, now that the ball has been declared DEAD.)

Well I can tell you that again we do not on my crew or most crews I have worked with, blow our whistle on plays we do not see. Even if it is obvious. Players in my experience know when the play is over and often stop. Yes if there are players that are clearly still playing or cannot stop, there might be a whistle from that covering official, but that is not very common. If I do not see leather, I am not blowing my whistle. I am more likely to use my voice or yell at players the "ball is dead" or something so they know what to do at that point. But blowing a whistle for the most part and not ruling on something is a big no-no here. All it takes is that one time.

Originally Posted by ajmc

Inside officials (Umpire, Referee, opposite Wing) repeating TO signals can be extremely helpful in avoiding unnecessary problems with delayed clock stoppages caused by the initial signal not being visible to the clock operator (especially when a wing official may be obscured by the congestion in the Team Box area.)

I was a Back Judge on my crew for years with a playoff crew, I probably only blew my whistle on incomplete passes or very long runs. Otherwise, I would never blow my whistle. I am a Referee on the same crew now if the play does not end in the backfield, I do not blow my whistle at all. And even in the backfield it better be at my feet. As I said many plays end without a single whistle.

Peace

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Not exactly, but since you asked. The biggest obstacle to consistent Clock operation is....Distractions, which there is an unending, imaginative supply of. Like any other Officiating duty, focus is an acquired skill. Having the advantage (blessing) of working in an area where former Officials (1950s-60s) convinced schools that where field game clocks were used, they would be manned by ONLY certified, active Officials, which has served to minimize problems(and complaints) well.

However some general problems/issues persist and require special attention:

VISIBILITY: Some/many/most HS stadium Press boxes are not as high as we'd like, which causes problems seeing wing officials on both sidelines, especially the closest one, so "signalling" becomes really important. In a perfect world, when any official signals "incomplete" or "Stop the clock", ALL their crew mates repeat their signals, which aids the clock operator in seeing the signal. Some fields have MUCH BETTER lights, than others.

One of everyone's favorite improvements was the conversion to black official's pants, BUT (sadly) they disappear into the background more than the old white knickers, so clear, repetitive signalling has become more important.

Wing officials can get lost in front of either side "Team areas", so the consistently repeated signals of interior field officials is important, especially when the signal may be away from/behind the action. An extra swipe of a TO signal can be very helpful. Some fields allow a lot more people (cheerleaders, special guests, wanderers) along the rest of the sidelines (who tend to congregate along the goal line extended (when allowed to) which further hampers visibility & limits sideline officials movement (and safety)

Although a lot of different people are interested in what & when you signal, remember the ONE you're directing the signal to, is the clock operator. It's not a bad idea, when signalling note the time on the clock, which can help avoid some BS argument efforts. If the clock doesn't stop immediately, KEEP SIGNALLING until it does.

For better, or worse, we're all considered part of the same crew, are dependent on each other, and likely still searching for our FIRST perfect game (no matter how long we've been doing it).

The distraction explanation is very valid. I've heard that many times and the couple times I've sat in a press box helping to run a clock it was easy to get distracted. And the press box wasn't very full when I did it! I'm sure a Friday night varsity game is crazy! I doubt the distraction is any better or worse based on play clock rule used. The silent game clock wind will be an adjustment for the game clock guy because he may rely on the whistle to zone in on starting the clock.