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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 11, 2019, 02:40pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
My God, no. The covering official signals. He's the only one who blows his whistle, too. If by extra you mean no more than 2, I agree.
[/QUOTE]

I'm surprised, that may be related to which version of Rome you happen to work in. EACH/ALL the locations I've worked in (6) recommended 3 swipes for a TO signal and wanted ALL the field officials to repeat both the whistle & signal when ANY official killed the play (& clock) so that everybody, no matter where they were on the field, knew the play was over, the ball was dead and all the action should STOP.
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Old Wed Sep 11, 2019, 02:47pm
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Originally Posted by ajmc View Post

I'm surprised, that may be related to which version of Rome you happen to work in. EACH/ALL the locations I've worked in (6) recommended 3 swipes for a TO signal and wanted ALL the field officials to repeat both the whistle & signal when ANY official killed the play (& clock) so that everybody, no matter where they were on the field, knew the play was over, the ball was dead and all the action should STOP.
Oh God no. Never told to repeat a signal or whistle. If you recognized the ball is dead, we could have multiple whistles, but not unless you are clearly ruling it that way. Otherwise, the calling official will have the only signal and whistle. Now with a first down gained, then it might be multiple officials because you have recognized this takes place, but not just because someone else gives the signal. But for the most part, you do nothing in those cases. Same goes for a TD signal. Only the covering official(s) give the signal. So if that means one official gives the signal, then that is all we need. I even tell the clock people you might have to look for one official doing something, we are not repeating or mirroring such situations.

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Old Thu Sep 12, 2019, 07:10am
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Oh God no. Never told to repeat a signal or whistle. If you recognized the ball is dead, we could have multiple whistles, but not unless you are clearly ruling it that way. we are not repeating or mirroring such situations. Peace
Didn't mean to apply "mirroring" someone else's signals is appropriate, It's generally not, with the exception of STOPPING play. That 1st whistle ENDS the play EVERYWHERE, right, wrong or indifferent. Secondary whistles simply announce to everyone else that the play HAS BEEN ended (so EVERYONE should stop playing, and hopefully avoid doing something unnecessary, now that the ball has been declared DEAD.)

Inside officials (Umpire, Referee, opposite Wing) repeating TO signals can be extremely helpful in avoiding unnecessary problems with delayed clock stoppages caused by the initial signal not being visible to the clock operator (especially when a wing official may be obscured by the congestion in the Team Box area.)
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Old Thu Sep 12, 2019, 07:55am
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Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
Didn't mean to apply "mirroring" someone else's signals is appropriate, It's generally not, with the exception of STOPPING play. That 1st whistle ENDS the play EVERYWHERE, right, wrong or indifferent. Secondary whistles simply announce to everyone else that the play HAS BEEN ended (so EVERYONE should stop playing, and hopefully avoid doing something unnecessary, now that the ball has been declared DEAD.)

Inside officials (Umpire, Referee, opposite Wing) repeating TO signals can be extremely helpful in avoiding unnecessary problems with delayed clock stoppages caused by the initial signal not being visible to the clock operator (especially when a wing official may be obscured by the congestion in the Team Box area.)
As a clock operator for college, I can say that having multiple officials stopping the clock can help -- especially when the play ends near one sideline (so I am watching that official to see if the play ended in bounds or out of bounds) and an official not near the play has a stoppage (TO from the "opposite" team, or a flag away from the play, for example). If more officials echo the stop clock, I am more likely to pick it up sooner.

OTOH, it can also be confusing: a fumble, a scrum, the ball ends up near the line to gain, one official peers in the pile and winds the clock; another comes running in and stops the clock; 5 others do nothing (I am sure they are doing something--just nothing that affects the clock).

And, yes, -- there's a lot going on up there, and most of us are wearing multiple hats during the game.
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Old Thu Sep 12, 2019, 08:44am
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
As a clock operator for college, I can say that having multiple officials stopping the clock can help -- especially when the play ends near one sideline (so I am watching that official to see if the play ended in bounds or out of bounds) and an official not near the play has a stoppage (TO from the "opposite" team, or a flag away from the play, for example). If more officials echo the stop clock, I am more likely to pick it up sooner.
I agree it might be easier to see, but if you have a tight spot where the line to gain is not clearly reached, it would make little sense and would be improper if the Back Judge stops the clock and the player was not out of bounds. You only give that signal as a Back Judge if we are way past that line or it is 4th down, where it does not matter if the LTG is reached. And certainly at the college level we might get asked why we are killing the clock on a play we are not ruling. Just not a good practice for us to use.

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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
OTOH, it can also be confusing: a fumble, a scrum, the ball ends up near the line to gain, one official peers in the pile and winds the clock; another comes running in and stops the clock; 5 others do nothing (I am sure they are doing something--just nothing that affects the clock).
Well on a long delay or clearly a pile after a fumble or loose ball, we are to stop the clock to dig if there is not clear possession beforehand. So you may have an official not near the pile stop the clock.

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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
And, yes, -- there's a lot going on up there, and most of us are wearing multiple hats during the game.
Well, that clearly seems to be the case because of how often we have to correct clock issues at the college level.

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Old Thu Sep 12, 2019, 08:53am
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Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
Didn't mean to apply "mirroring" someone else's signals is appropriate, It's generally not, with the exception of STOPPING play. That 1st whistle ENDS the play EVERYWHERE, right, wrong or indifferent. Secondary whistles simply announce to everyone else that the play HAS BEEN ended (so EVERYONE should stop playing, and hopefully avoid doing something unnecessary, now that the ball has been declared DEAD.)
Well I can tell you that again we do not on my crew or most crews I have worked with, blow our whistle on plays we do not see. Even if it is obvious. Players in my experience know when the play is over and often stop. Yes if there are players that are clearly still playing or cannot stop, there might be a whistle from that covering official, but that is not very common. If I do not see leather, I am not blowing my whistle. I am more likely to use my voice or yell at players the "ball is dead" or something so they know what to do at that point. But blowing a whistle for the most part and not ruling on something is a big no-no here. All it takes is that one time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
Inside officials (Umpire, Referee, opposite Wing) repeating TO signals can be extremely helpful in avoiding unnecessary problems with delayed clock stoppages caused by the initial signal not being visible to the clock operator (especially when a wing official may be obscured by the congestion in the Team Box area.)
I was a Back Judge on my crew for years with a playoff crew, I probably only blew my whistle on incomplete passes or very long runs. Otherwise, I would never blow my whistle. I am a Referee on the same crew now if the play does not end in the backfield, I do not blow my whistle at all. And even in the backfield it better be at my feet. As I said many plays end without a single whistle.

Peace
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Old Thu Sep 12, 2019, 01:40pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Well I can tell you that again we do not on my crew or most crews I have worked with, blow our whistle on plays we do not see. Even if it is obvious. Players in my experience know when the play is over and often stop. Yes if there are players that are clearly still playing or cannot stop, there might be a whistle from that covering official, but that is not very common. If I do not see leather, I am not blowing my whistle. I am more likely to use my voice or yell at players the "ball is dead" or something so they know what to do at that point. But blowing a whistle for the most part and not ruling on something is a big no-no here. All it takes is that one time.

I was a Back Judge on my crew for years with a playoff crew, I probably only blew my whistle on incomplete passes or very long runs. Otherwise, I would never blow my whistle. I am a Referee on the same crew now if the play does not end in the backfield, I do not blow my whistle at all. And even in the backfield it better be at my feet. As I said many plays end without a single whistle.

Peace
I am in complete agreement with you here. I'm now an umpire (was an LJ when I created this profile) and I'm sure there are games where I never blow my whistle. Most common instance would be a false start or to alert the crew I had a foul. The only time I do it to signal the end of a play is on a kickoff when I'm the covering official on the return. On regular scrimmage plays I spit out my whistle and use my voice to let players know "plays over!"
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Old Sat Sep 14, 2019, 10:43am
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Originally Posted by bisonlj View Post
I am in complete agreement with you here. I'm now an umpire (was an LJ when I created this profile) and I'm sure there are games where I never blow my whistle. Most common instance would be a false start or to alert the crew I had a foul. The only time I do it to signal the end of a play is on a kickoff when I'm the covering official on the return. On regular scrimmage plays I spit out my whistle and use my voice to let players know "plays over!"
Good idea, if ever there was a situation perfectly fitting the advice, "One size NEVER fits all", it's a football game, especially considering the enormous span in the maturity, experience, skill, talent and physical abilities of the participant as well as the progressive complexity of how the game is played, and managed, at different levels.
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Old Sat Sep 14, 2019, 01:25pm
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Last night the timer came to our locker room. Has been doing it a long time. Nice guy.

I warned him that my wind after a first down inbounds could be really quick -- maybe a second after the clock stops if the ball is inside the hash marks.

Then I found myself winding....and winding....and winding.....

At some point the timers will catch on, but I am not changing our mechanics. They need to adapt to us, not us adapt (forever) to them.
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Old Thu Sep 12, 2019, 02:47pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Well I can tell you that again we do not on my crew or most crews I have worked with, blow our whistle on plays we do not see. Even if it is obvious. Players in my experience know when the play is over and often stop. Yes if there are players that are clearly still playing or cannot stop, there might be a whistle from that covering official, but that is not very common. If I do not see leather, I am not blowing my whistle. I am more likely to use my voice or yell at players the "ball is dead" or something so they know what to do at that point. But blowing a whistle for the most part and not ruling on something is a big no-no here. All it takes is that one time.







I was a Back Judge on my crew for years with a playoff crew, I probably only blew my whistle on incomplete passes or very long runs. Otherwise, I would never blow my whistle. I am a Referee on the same crew now if the play does not end in the backfield, I do not blow my whistle at all. And even in the backfield it better be at my feet. As I said many plays end without a single whistle.



Peace


To me it's a sign of a good crew when I hear one whistle end a play the vast majority of the time.

And vice versa.


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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 12, 2019, 05:55pm
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We don’t echo whistles. We DO mirror “stop the clock.”
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Old Thu Sep 12, 2019, 08:26pm
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We don’t echo whistles. We DO mirror “stop the clock.”


I will at times do that on an obvious first down without a whistle.

I don't want the crew mirroring my wind, though.


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