Foul or Held Ball? (Video)

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BigCat

we will agree to disagree. the offense goes up with two hands and actually moves ball a bit. defense comes across wrist and i dont think he ever touches ball. offense going up hard and just holding on to ball. i thought that on first view and think even more on the slow shots. again, we will agree to disagree. i dont have any problem with the body here either.

We can agree to disagree but I think the 0:16 and 0:17 clearly show the defender hitting the ball. And the contact up top, if any, is on the hand not the wrist, which we all know is part of the ball.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

We can agree to disagree but I think the 0:16 and 0:17 clearly show the defender hitting the ball. And the contact up top, if any, is on the hand not the wrist, which we all know is part of the ball.

i see wrist to wrist contact. defender finger tips pointed to sky when i see contact between wrists. just not seeing hand to ball or hand to hand on ball contact. its late, im tired....and it is a small square im looking at...i'll try again in the morning. thx

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

i see wrist to wrist contact. defender finger tips pointed to sky when i see contact between wrists. just not seeing hand to ball or hand to hand on ball contact. its late, im tired....and it is a small square im looking at...i'll try again in the morning. thx

Doesn't really matter if the defender is vertical...which is pretty much what you just said. Contact with the wrist in the defender's vertical plane isn't a foul on the defender since the defender is in a legal position if their arms are raised above their head from LGP. And i believe the defender easily had LGP and jumped vertically within his plane and raised his arms in that plane. They only came out of the plan after they came together and the shot was stopped.

[Raymond]

Good defensive play... held ball

[Lcubed48]

I've got a held ball because I don't see where the defender did anything wrong. AND, the actual call was?

[APG]

Originally Posted by Lcubed48

I've got a held ball because I don't see where the defender did anything wrong. AND, the actual call was?

The lead had a foul on the play.

[JRutledge]

This is clearly a held ball to me. I seem contact with the ball and some wrist contact that was after the block attempt.

Peace

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by APG

The lead had a foul on the play.

A more intriguing question besides what is the correct call is this: "Who should make a call on a play like this?"
This is one of those situations deserving of special pregame mention. Every single game. Without fail. Common enough not to just let 'em happen and take a chance on 'em and hope the Lead or Center gets it right.
Lead, presuming he's in closedown position, is in a very bad position to make that call -- he's straightlined. Right?
Center, with the dribble-drive originating in his area, isn't really able to catch a cross-section of the play either, unless stepped waaaaay down. Right?
Neither of those two have any kind of slot view. Neither can reliably determine whether the defender is in his vertical or not, initiating contact or not, jumping into the shooter or not. And when either make a call on this one, most of the time it's gonna be against the defender whether or not he made contact outside his vertical.
This is where an engaged Trail, the only one of the three, by virtue of his positioning, would have a good look at it in order to make a call. But it really takes discipline on the part of a diligent crew for the Lead and Center to withhold their whistles in favor of what their Trail might determine.
In the two-person system, this really, really is a tough one, since both Lead and Trail are likely stacked on the play.
Agree? Or have I been listening to too much Badfinger today all day at work?