Foul or Held Ball? (Video)

[APG]

Originally Posted by Lcubed48

I've got a held ball because I don't see where the defender did anything wrong. AND, the actual call was?

The lead had a foul on the play.

[JRutledge]

This is clearly a held ball to me. I seem contact with the ball and some wrist contact that was after the block attempt.

Peace

[Sunnyboy]

Foul. Defender steps to the offensive player as he ends his dribble. Jump straight after moving to shooter, hits with body and hits wrist.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Sunnyboy

Foul. Defender steps to the offensive player as he ends his dribble. Jump straight after moving to shooter, hits with body and hits wrist.

What is illegal about that.

[Adam]

Easily a held ball.

[twocentsworth]

Add "block shots" to the list of plays (including: block/charge and traveling)that officials struggle to officiate correctly.

Simply put, if you work games with limited size, quickness, & athleticism...then you probably will view this as a foul (as you don't have very many block shots that occur in those types of games).

From my view, this is NOT a foul - simply a held ball. The defender had LGP, did not got thru the body of the shooter to get to the ball, and made contact w/ the ball prior to any contact w/ the hand/wrist/arm.

I'm sure others will disagree...or even feel as if I'm disparaging the games they work...that's certainly not my intent. Simply trying to clarify WHY I feel it's a held ball and why others may feel it's a foul.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

Simply put, if you work games with limited size, quickness, & athleticism...then you probably will view this as a foul (as you don't have very many block shots that occur in those types of games).

This is a generalization but I tend to agree with it. I'm sure there are a few in this thread with impressive resumes who would call this a foul but the majority seem to agree its a held ball.

And my experience and observations on the court leads me to the same generalization regarding the kinds of games people usually work. In the extended DC metro area there is a wide range of quality of play at the HS level. From very mediocre ball to some of the best HS competition in the country.

Occasionally guys who work mostly mediocre level of play get games with future D-1 players and it shows. They have too many fouls on marginal contact and whistles that shouldnt be in the game. Then often freeze up and miss the obvious stuff right in front of them. But I digress.

Earlier this season I was watching the game after mine in a tip off tournament with some very good teams. I happen to be watching with one of the most respected evaluators in our state and who is also the father of a D-1 official. A guy was reffing a game that was over his head and after a foul call on a play that was a simple out of bounds the evaluator said, "he has NO IDEA what a foul is."

When I see this thread and the one where officials want to T a kid for hanging on the rim to stabilize his momentum this generalization comes to mind.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by APG

The lead had a foul on the play.

A more intriguing question besides what is the correct call is this: "Who should make a call on a play like this?"
This is one of those situations deserving of special pregame mention. Every single game. Without fail. Common enough not to just let 'em happen and take a chance on 'em and hope the Lead or Center gets it right.
Lead, presuming he's in closedown position, is in a very bad position to make that call -- he's straightlined. Right?
Center, with the dribble-drive originating in his area, isn't really able to catch a cross-section of the play either, unless stepped waaaaay down. Right?
Neither of those two have any kind of slot view. Neither can reliably determine whether the defender is in his vertical or not, initiating contact or not, jumping into the shooter or not. And when either make a call on this one, most of the time it's gonna be against the defender whether or not he made contact outside his vertical.
This is where an engaged Trail, the only one of the three, by virtue of his positioning, would have a good look at it in order to make a call. But it really takes discipline on the part of a diligent crew for the Lead and Center to withhold their whistles in favor of what their Trail might determine.
In the two-person system, this really, really is a tough one, since both Lead and Trail are likely stacked on the play.
Agree? Or have I been listening to too much Badfinger today all day at work?