Was this handled correctly?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

The initial call was out of bounds, and after conferring with his partner the call was changed to a foul. Sure sounds to me as if the partner in this case made the call, but let his partner announce it.

And another official just told you he's made calls without blowing his whistle.

And again... the officials manual lays out the correct procedure. In doing so, it says it's imperative for a whistle to be blown in order for the procedure to be done right. It does not say nor imply that a foul called without a whistle doesn't count.

Let's not include BNR's situation as "another official just told you he's made calls without blowing his whistle." That's an accident. I've had situations - before CMGs - where I've blown my whistle and the thing flew out of my mouth before it made enough of a noise. I put it back in my mouth and made the call/stopped play. Find something in the NFHS rules that allows live-ball fouls to be penalized without a whistle to accompany them. NCAA is different but that's because of the monitor rule.

We also shouldn't say it's a summer league game and we do things differently in summer league games. That's no excuse. Your partner misses one call in the process of making another. What makes correcting that particular call any different from any other situation like that in a game, summer or not? If you're going to do it once be prepared to do it the entire game.

[BillyMac]

No whistle before a foul? Pregame dunking? Player not in the book? Some fights? Some technicals?

If a foul happens in the forest, and there's no official there to sound a whistle ...

[BryanV21]

If you guys would quit reading too much into it, you'd see that I was referring to the fact that the trail could very well go up to the lead official and tell him there was a foul before the OOB, and the lead changes the call from an OOB to a foul.

So, basically, the trail official made a foul call without blowing his whistle.

[Rich]

I'm also agreeing with Billy.

Had this happen in a BV game this season. Ball heading OOB in the corner, partner was pinned and didn't see the obvious push on the player that then hit the ball out. He had an immediate whistle and when he called the OOB, I put air in my whistle and came and sold the foul hard. I wanted to see if he had the foul and when he didn't, I felt it was worth a long distance call. Both coaches would've seen the push, as it was in the corner, tableside.

Mechanically, I handled it a bit differently, but the result was the same. There were no competitive matchups away from this action, why wouldn't I look there?

There's no reason to leave a call as incorrect when you know that it's incorrect. Fix it and move on.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

We also shouldn't say it's a summer league game and we do things differently in summer league games. That's no excuse.

With all due respect, it is different. Summer AAU ball is a whole different beast than regular season high school ball in many ways. We don't care about most fashion rules (except jewelry). We allow illegal numbers. We have brand new table crews we have to deal with, who are usually inexperienced each game. We have different rulesets. We often work a minimum of 3 games - sometimes as many as 6 or 8 in a day. That certainly has an effect on our mental and physical capacity and how much effort is given. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it is reality. My "best effort" in my first game is far different than my "best effort" in game 6. Partners are randomly assigned - you never know what level of experience you might get. So you may have to reach or handle situations a little different in a heated game with a weaker partner. The situation in the OP - we have no idea what the context was in that game - other that that specific situation. Based on my vast experience working AAU ball, I can see the OP as a valid scenario. Y'all can talk all day about following the letter of the rulebook. It is much more grey in summer ball.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Smitty

With all due respect, it is different. Summer AAU ball is a whole different beast than regular season high school ball in many ways. We don't care about most fashion rules (except jewelry). We allow illegal numbers. We have brand new table crews we have to deal with, who are usually inexperienced each game. We have different rulesets. We often work a minimum of 3 games - sometimes as many as 6 or 8 in a day. That certainly has an effect on our mental and physical capacity and how much effort is given. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it is reality. My "best effort" in my first game is far different than my "best effort" in game 6. Partners are randomly assigned - you never know what level of experience you might get. So you may have to reach or handle situations a little different in a heated game with a weaker partner. The situation in the OP - we have no idea what the context was in that game - other that that specific situation. Based on my vast experience working AAU ball, I can see the OP as a valid scenario. Y'all can talk all day about following the letter of the rulebook. It is much more grey in summer ball.

With all due respect - it isn't and I have a little bit of experience as well. The differences you talk about in terms of rules (illegal numbers, etc.) are due to the rules in place for a specific tournament. As far as AAU goes, they normally follow NFHS or NCAA rules. If the people running the tournament tell us to handle certain things - cosmetic or otherwise - a certain way then that's what we do because that's who is paying us, which is no different that the regular season.

Regardless of what our best effort may be in terms of how many games we decide to work the manner in which we handle our in-game business overall shouldn't change. If we change the basic way we work between summer and winter it's no wonder we get complaints about consistency.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

No whistle before a foul? Pregame dunking? Player not in the book? Some fights? Some technicals?

If a foul happens in the forest, and there's no official there to sound a whistle ...

Billy, I said live-ball fouls.

[Smitty]

In theory, sure. In reality, you handle your business as best you can given the cards you're dealt. In the OP, I think it was handled ok. They got the play right. Isn't that a good thing? I don't know if the process was awesome - we have a one-sided synopsis of the situation from a coach, but the end result is that they got the play right, and I'm ok with that.