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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 10, 2014, 09:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
I believe that you are still evaluating the situation improperly.
1. Whether coaches or fans "go crazy" about a play should have no influence on the decisions of the officials or the correctness of their actions according to the books.
2. Your idea that one is a big miss and the other is inconsequential doesn't impact the properness of an official NOT blowing his whistle and then trying to enforce a penalty. The egregiousness of the situation should determine when a partner DOES blow his whistle outside of his PCA.
3. By the book, no official can ever overrule a partner on a foul or violation call.

But just to humor you:...
Let's move my scenario to directly in front of the defending team's coach and say that he is going crazy about the travel and say that his team is up by 1 with 2 seconds left in the game.
(Picking nits) Unless we let them go in the wrong direction the whole game, this couldn't happen . . .
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 10, 2014, 09:34am
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Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
We also shouldn't say it's a summer league game and we do things differently in summer league games. That's no excuse.
With all due respect, it is different. Summer AAU ball is a whole different beast than regular season high school ball in many ways. We don't care about most fashion rules (except jewelry). We allow illegal numbers. We have brand new table crews we have to deal with, who are usually inexperienced each game. We have different rulesets. We often work a minimum of 3 games - sometimes as many as 6 or 8 in a day. That certainly has an effect on our mental and physical capacity and how much effort is given. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it is reality. My "best effort" in my first game is far different than my "best effort" in game 6. Partners are randomly assigned - you never know what level of experience you might get. So you may have to reach or handle situations a little different in a heated game with a weaker partner. The situation in the OP - we have no idea what the context was in that game - other that that specific situation. Based on my vast experience working AAU ball, I can see the OP as a valid scenario. Y'all can talk all day about following the letter of the rulebook. It is much more grey in summer ball.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 10, 2014, 09:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty View Post
With all due respect, it is different. Summer AAU ball is a whole different beast than regular season high school ball in many ways. We don't care about most fashion rules (except jewelry). We allow illegal numbers. We have brand new table crews we have to deal with, who are usually inexperienced each game. We have different rulesets. We often work a minimum of 3 games - sometimes as many as 6 or 8 in a day. That certainly has an effect on our mental and physical capacity and how much effort is given. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but it is reality. My "best effort" in my first game is far different than my "best effort" in game 6. Partners are randomly assigned - you never know what level of experience you might get. So you may have to reach or handle situations a little different in a heated game with a weaker partner. The situation in the OP - we have no idea what the context was in that game - other that that specific situation. Based on my vast experience working AAU ball, I can see the OP as a valid scenario. Y'all can talk all day about following the letter of the rulebook. It is much more grey in summer ball.
With all due respect - it isn't and I have a little bit of experience as well. The differences you talk about in terms of rules (illegal numbers, etc.) are due to the rules in place for a specific tournament. As far as AAU goes, they normally follow NFHS or NCAA rules. If the people running the tournament tell us to handle certain things - cosmetic or otherwise - a certain way then that's what we do because that's who is paying us, which is no different that the regular season.

Regardless of what our best effort may be in terms of how many games we decide to work the manner in which we handle our in-game business overall shouldn't change. If we change the basic way we work between summer and winter it's no wonder we get complaints about consistency.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
No whistle before a foul? Pregame dunking? Player not in the book? Some fights? Some technicals?

If a foul happens in the forest, and there's no official there to sound a whistle ...
Billy, I said live-ball fouls.
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Last edited by JetMetFan; Tue Jun 10, 2014 at 09:50am.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 10, 2014, 09:50am
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In theory, sure. In reality, you handle your business as best you can given the cards you're dealt. In the OP, I think it was handled ok. They got the play right. Isn't that a good thing? I don't know if the process was awesome - we have a one-sided synopsis of the situation from a coach, but the end result is that they got the play right, and I'm ok with that.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
With all due respect - it isn't and I have a little bit of experience as well. The differences you talk about in terms of rules (illegal numbers, etc.) are due to the rules in place for a specific tournament. As far as AAU goes, they normally follow NFHS or NCAA rules. If the people running the tournament tell us to handle certain things - cosmetic or otherwise - a certain way then that's what we do because that's who is paying us, which is no different that the regular season.

Regardless of what our best effort may be in terms of how many games we decide to work the manner in which we handle our in-game business overall shouldn't change. If we change the basic way we work between summer and winter it's no wonder we get complaints about consistency.

Billy, I said live-ball fouls.
This isn't a rule issue, it's a mechanics issue. Right or wrong, mechanics often need to be tweaked in summer games.

Now, quite frankly, I fall in with Rich, Smitty, and Billy on this. Are there time limits on how long one can wait? Sure, but it's fuzzy. Is there a minimum threshold for the severity of the foul before I call it like this? Yes, but it's fuzzy.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 10, 2014, 12:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
This isn't a rule issue, it's a mechanics issue. Right or wrong, mechanics often need to be tweaked in summer games.

Now, quite frankly, I fall in with Rich, Smitty, and Billy on this. Are there time limits on how long one can wait? Sure, but it's fuzzy. Is there a minimum threshold for the severity of the foul before I call it like this? Yes, but it's fuzzy.
Agree.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I'm also agreeing with Billy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Now, quite frankly, I fall in with Rich, Smitty, and Billy on this.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 11, 2014, 04:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
(Picking nits) Unless we let them go in the wrong direction the whole game, this couldn't happen . . .
Pretend that it's an NBA game.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:27am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Pretend that it's an NBA game.
Thanks, Nevada. (Hopefully, you took my comment as a friendly note. I only mentioned it to try to lighten the conversation a bit. You're one of the members of this board who's insight and comments are always appreciated.)
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:32am
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Get a room.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2014, 10:36am
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2014, 04:51pm
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Need A Long Lost Citation ??? Ask Nevadaref ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
Thanks, Nevada. You're one of the members of this board who's insight and comments are always appreciated.
He's also the Archive King.
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