Summer Ball Blues

[ballgame99]

Its slow on the board, so a little funny story that I'm sure most of you can relate to. Last night while doing some small school varsity summer ball the following play occurs while I am trail;

Ball is in A's frontcourt, A1 passes the ball, pass is tipped by B2, tipped again by A2, then enters the backcourt where it is recovered by A2. Whistle, backcourt violation (9-9-1).

I get hammered by the A coach about how 'it was tipped!!' I indicate I was aware of that but A touched it last. 'it doesn't matter!" My partner comes in to verify that it indeed was tipped. I thank him for the information, but stick to my call. My partner then says 'but it was tipped'. (I gave him the look you would probably give a non-helpful partner at this point) and he says 'but its your call'. I say "B's ball on the side, backcourt" and coach lays back into me telling me how wrong that is. I told him "look it up" (admittedly probably not the best thing to say, but its summer ball), he says "I don't have to look it up, I've been coaching 27 years, I know a backcourt when I see one" With that we play on. Good times.

[Camron Rust]

Summer ball...coach I'll give you my game fee back if you can show me the rule that backs up your claim.

Often in summer, the environment is more casual. If I have such a situation in the first games of the day, I'll often take a moment between games to approach "some" coaches (those that are approachable) to discuss it at a less tense moment. Often, it is just a mention that they would be correct for the NBA or NCAA but that the high school rule is different....letting them be partially right makes it easier to have the discussion. Most of the time, the coaches are very receptive and hopefully, are a bit more educated. Some coaches, I don't bother, it would be useless. You can tell who is open to information and who isn't. I've found that approach can turn coaches from one who gripes about too much to one who then will ask honest questions and will accept the answers.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Coach I'll give you my game fee back if you can show me the rule that backs up your claim.

Good thing that it didn't end up in the back court after a few tips after a throwin. We all know what a great job the NFHS did with that team control rule change a few years ago, and how easy it would be to point it out in the rulebook to the coach. I wouldn't want my game fee riding on what it says in the rulebook.

[grunewar]

Had my first Case Play 10.3.10 A. Situation b.

A1 inbounding the ball on the endline during a close game. B1 reaches across the endline and smacks the ball while A1 is still holding it.

Took me a mili-second to process and I thought to myself - "Hey." TWEET!! Whack!

B Coach, "Hey, I've never seen that called."

Me, "Coach, it's a first for me too."

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Its slow on the board, so a little funny story that I'm sure most of you can relate to. Last night while doing some small school varsity summer ball the following play occurs while I am trail;

Ball is in A's frontcourt, A1 passes the ball, pass is tipped by B2, tipped again by A2, then enters the backcourt where it is recovered by A2. Whistle, backcourt violation (9-9-1).

I get hammered by the A coach about how 'it was tipped!!' I indicate I was aware of that but A touched it last. 'it doesn't matter!" My partner comes in to verify that it indeed was tipped. I thank him for the information, but stick to my call. My partner then says 'but it was tipped'. (I gave him the look you would probably give a non-helpful partner at this point) and he says 'but its your call'. I say "B's ball on the side, backcourt" and coach lays back into me telling me how wrong that is. I told him "look it up" (admittedly probably not the best thing to say, but its summer ball), he says "I don't have to look it up, I've been coaching 27 years, I know a backcourt when I see one" With that we play on. Good times.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Had my first Case Play 10.3.10 A. Situation b.

10.3.10 SITUATION A: After a field goal, A1 has the ball out of bounds for a
throw-in. Thrower A1 holds the ball: (a) B2 crosses the boundary line and fouls
A1; or (b) B2 reaches through the out-of-bounds plane and touches the ball while
in the hands of A1. RULING: It is an intentional personal foul in (a), and a technical
foul in (b). In (a), such a contact foul with the thrower during a throw-in
shall be considered intentional, or if it is violent, it should be ruled flagrant.
COMMENT: Either act is a foul and it should be called whenever it occurs during
a game without regard to time or score or whether the team had or had not been
warned for a delay-of-game situation. If the player making the throw-in (A1)
reaches through the out-of-bounds plane into the court and B1 then slaps the ball
from the hand of A1, no violation has occurred. B1 has merely slapped a live ball
from the hands of A1. (4-19-3, 4; 9-2-10 Penalty 3, 4)

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Its slow on the board, so a little funny story that I'm sure most of you can relate to. Last night while doing some small school varsity summer ball the following play occurs while I am trail;

Ball is in A's frontcourt, A1 passes the ball, pass is tipped by B2, tipped again by A2, then enters the backcourt where it is recovered by A2. Whistle, backcourt violation (9-9-1).

I get hammered by the A coach about how 'it was tipped!!' I indicate I was aware of that but A touched it last. 'it doesn't matter!" My partner comes in to verify that it indeed was tipped. I thank him for the information, but stick to my call. My partner then says 'but it was tipped'. (I gave him the look you would probably give a non-helpful partner at this point) and he says 'but its your call'. I say "B's ball on the side, backcourt" and coach lays back into me telling me how wrong that is. I told him "look it up" (admittedly probably not the best thing to say, but its summer ball), he says "I don't have to look it up, I've been coaching 27 years, I know a backcourt when I see one" With that we play on. Good times.

I feel for you man. Hang in there.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If I have such a situation in the first games of the day, I'll often take a moment between games to approach "some" coaches (those that are approachable) to discuss it at a less tense moment. Often, it is just a mention that they would be correct for the NBA or NCAA but that the high school rule is different....letting them be partially right makes it easier to have the discussion. Most of the time, the coaches are very receptive and hopefully, are a bit more educated. Some coaches, I don't bother, it would be useless. You can tell who is open to information and who isn't. I've found that approach can turn coaches from one who gripes about too much to one who then will ask honest questions and will accept the answers.

I've done this a couple times. Once for the closely guarded rule (continues with different defenders) and once for a goaltending (ball can be blocked off the backboard if still going up). Both times I asked politely and was given permission to whip out the rulebook. I let them read it and change their own mind.

Originally Posted by grunewar

Had my first Case Play 10.3.10 A. Situation b.

A1 inbounding the ball on the endline during a close game. B1 reaches across the endline and smacks the ball while A1 is still holding it.

Took me a mili-second to process and I thought to myself - "Hey." TWEET!! Whack!

B Coach, "Hey, I've never seen that called."

Me, "Coach, it's a first for me too."

I had one last Thursday in a mens league final! Took me a milli-second as well but I was surprised afterward at how quickly I called it. I thought it would take me longer, but I whacked him right away. I was working with a 30 year vet who had never called one, so I guess I got lucky

[ballgame99]

I actually did have a discussion with him at half about it to make sure we saw the same thing, basically to make sure he saw his guy touch it in the front court, and he had. He just didn't know the rule. He told me he would look it up, and that "if that was a backcourt there would be backcourts all the time". OK coach, moving on.

And yes, Jetsfan, that was pretty much the look.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Its slow on the board, so a little funny story that I'm sure most of you can relate to. Last night while doing some small school varsity summer ball the following play occurs while I am trail;

Ball is in A's frontcourt, A1 passes the ball, pass is tipped by B2, tipped again by A2, then enters the backcourt where it is recovered by A2. Whistle, backcourt violation (9-9-1).

I get hammered by the A coach about how 'it was tipped!!' I indicate I was aware of that but A touched it last. 'it doesn't matter!" My partner comes in to verify that it indeed was tipped. I thank him for the information, but stick to my call. My partner then says 'but it was tipped'. (I gave him the look you would probably give a non-helpful partner at this point) and he says 'but its your call'. I say "B's ball on the side, backcourt" and coach lays back into me telling me how wrong that is. I told him "look it up" (admittedly probably not the best thing to say, but its summer ball), he says "I don't have to look it up, I've been coaching 27 years, I know a backcourt when I see one" With that we play on. Good times.

Tweet. Technical foul on Team A Head Coach "for not knowing the rule."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Tweet. Technical foul on Team A Head Coach "for not knowing the rule."

Dumbest rule in existence in HS basketball. First thing I'd fix if I was king.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Summer ball...coach I'll give you my game fee back if you can show me the rule that backs up your claim.

My personal favorite: "Coach, there's a rule book over at the table. Let's look it up. If you're right, I'll give you $10. But if I'm right, you have to go out to the parking lot and wash my car. Is it a bet?"

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

Dumbest rule in existence in HS basketball. First thing I'd fix if I was king.

What is the dumbest rule? (There could be a few different things you're referring to).

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

What is the dumbest rule? (There could be a few different things you're referring to).

I assume he's talking about 9-1-1.

[JetMetFan]

Speaking of summer/camp ball: If you haven't started working with the new NFHS hand check rules - remember, they were only POEs until now - get ready to ice your shoulders from calling fouls.

If your camp games are running time it's not bad. Actually it's pretty pleasant. If they're stop-time games...be prepared for some looooooong games.

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Speaking of summer/camp ball: If you haven't started working with the new NFHS hand check rules - remember, they were only POEs until now - get ready to ice your shoulders from calling fouls.

If your camp games are running time it's not bad. Actually it's pretty pleasant. If they're stop-time games...be prepared for some looooooong games.

If you thought those college scrimmages with 50-60 fouls were bad....