Was this handled correctly?

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Adam

With the sole exception of not considering it "overruling" my partner, I agree. I'm also not too keen of worrying about everyone going crazy, but that's a semantics difference, I think.

I'd be less inclined to do this with a partner with any significant experience, though.

You're right. It was wrong to use the word "overrule".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

It was wrong to use the word "overrule".

... and I'm not using the word "overrule" here either. If I didn't blow my whistle because I heard my partner's whistle (double whistles are also frowned upon here in my little corner of Connecticut), but, otherwise, I would have sounded my whistle (dual coverage, or a "felony", "elephant", or "whale"), then I will only offer information, I will not overrule my partner. I try to stay in my primary, but sometimes one just has get the call right, whether it's sounding my whistle outside of my primary, or offering information (if I have it, and I'm 100% sure) outside of my primary, with no whistle. This, including out of bounds helpful information, may happen two, or three, times a season. Whomever sounded the single whistle, it's their call, 100%, and nobody, including me, is going to overrule them. They either like my help, or they don't. That's all I can expect. In all cases of high school games, this will be pregamed, all the time, every single game, whether I'm the referee, or the umpire, so it won't come as a surprise to anybody.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Smitty

This is probably the first time in, well, ever that I agree with Billy Mac.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Correct me if I'm wrong (I by no means have the rule book memorized), but I don't believe a foul call MUST come after a whistle.

In total disbelief.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

In total disbelief.

Well then, smartguy, why don't you point out in the rule book where it states that a whistle must occur for a foul to be called? You used the argument that an official can't call a foul without having blown his whistle beforehand, so how about you back it up?

Or would you rather just throw out jabs that do nothing to further the discussion or provide an answer?

[Raymond]

I've had a coupletimes when I forgot to put the whistle in my mouth and yelled out foul.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Well then, smartguy, why don't you point out in the rule book where it states that a whistle must occur for a foul to be called? You used the argument that an official can't call a foul without having blown his whistle beforehand, so how about you back it up?

The rule book doesn't say that. The mechanics manual does. 2.4.2B-1, page 34 (if you work 2 man), or 3.4.2B-1, page 70 (if you work 3 man).

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by AremRed

The rule book doesn't say that. The mechanics manual does. 2.4.2B-1, page 34 (if you work 2 man), or 3.4.2B-1, page 70 (if you work 3 man).

That lays out the correct procedure in order to call a foul, but it does not say that a whistle must be blown before a foul is called. There are many instances where an official does not do things by the book, but that doesn't mean their call is incorrect or nullified.

Therefore, it is wrong to say an official can not call a foul if he did not blow his whistle beforehand. Which was part of the argument against doing what the official in the OP did.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

That lays out the correct procedure in order to call a foul, but it does not say that a whistle must be blown before a foul is called.

When the manual uses words/phrases like "imperative", "definite procedure", and "should be performed in the order listed" that sounds pretty definite to me.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

There are many instances where an official does not do things by the book, but that doesn't mean their call is incorrect or nullified.

This isn't one of those instances.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by AremRed

This isn't one of those instances.

The initial call was out of bounds, and after conferring with his partner the call was changed to a foul. Sure sounds to me as if the partner in this case made the call, but let his partner announce it.

And another official just told you he's made calls without blowing his whistle.

And again... the officials manual lays out the correct procedure. In doing so, it says it's imperative for a whistle to be blown in order for the procedure to be done right. It does not say nor imply that a foul called without a whistle doesn't count.

Originally Posted by BryanV21

The initial call was out of bounds, and after conferring with his partner the call was changed to a foul. Sure sounds to me as if the partner in this case made the call, but let his partner announce it.

Are you saying the guy who called the OOB reported the foul that the other partner wanted? Sounds realistic.

NFHS 2-6 says "No official has the authority to set aside or question decisions made by the other official(s) within the limits of their respective outlined duties."

Don't those "respective outlined duties" include the primary coverage areas and foul calling procedures outlined in the mechanics manual?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

The initial call was out of bounds, and after conferring with his partner the call was changed to a foul. Sure sounds to me as if the partner in this case made the call, but let his partner announce it.

And another official just told you he's made calls without blowing his whistle.

And again... the officials manual lays out the correct procedure. In doing so, it says it's imperative for a whistle to be blown in order for the procedure to be done right. It does not say nor imply that a foul called without a whistle doesn't count.

Let's not include BNR's situation as "another official just told you he's made calls without blowing his whistle." That's an accident. I've had situations - before CMGs - where I've blown my whistle and the thing flew out of my mouth before it made enough of a noise. I put it back in my mouth and made the call/stopped play. Find something in the NFHS rules that allows live-ball fouls to be penalized without a whistle to accompany them. NCAA is different but that's because of the monitor rule.

We also shouldn't say it's a summer league game and we do things differently in summer league games. That's no excuse. Your partner misses one call in the process of making another. What makes correcting that particular call any different from any other situation like that in a game, summer or not? If you're going to do it once be prepared to do it the entire game.

[BillyMac]

No whistle before a foul? Pregame dunking? Player not in the book? Some fights? Some technicals?

If a foul happens in the forest, and there's no official there to sound a whistle ...

[BryanV21]

If you guys would quit reading too much into it, you'd see that I was referring to the fact that the trail could very well go up to the lead official and tell him there was a foul before the OOB, and the lead changes the call from an OOB to a foul.

So, basically, the trail official made a foul call without blowing his whistle.

[Rich]

I'm also agreeing with Billy.

Had this happen in a BV game this season. Ball heading OOB in the corner, partner was pinned and didn't see the obvious push on the player that then hit the ball out. He had an immediate whistle and when he called the OOB, I put air in my whistle and came and sold the foul hard. I wanted to see if he had the foul and when he didn't, I felt it was worth a long distance call. Both coaches would've seen the push, as it was in the corner, tableside.

Mechanically, I handled it a bit differently, but the result was the same. There were no competitive matchups away from this action, why wouldn't I look there?

There's no reason to leave a call as incorrect when you know that it's incorrect. Fix it and move on.