Was this handled correctly?

[Coach Bill]

A pass was thrown to the corner where my guy missed the steal but bumped the guy out of bounds. The official (two man crew) near center court didn't see the bump and whistled the play dead and signaled out of bounds on them, our ball. The other team, the crowd, everyone in the gym was yelling that he was pushed. It was at this point, a good 5-10 seconds later, that his partner walked up to him, and they charged a foul to us.

I asked the non-calling official "Did you see it?" "Did you blow your whistle on the play?" Was refused an answer. The only answer I got was we conferred and called the foul. They gave the foul to the wrong number, so it makes it even more suspicious.

I didn't make a big deal of it. Summer league HS game, and they did get the call right. But, was this handled correctly and legally?

[Nevadaref]

When there is a foul and a violation the officials must decide which came first and go with that. However, the only way that either a foul or violation is called by an official is by blowing the whistle. Since only one whistle occurred in your play, I don't see how the officials could have had conflicting calls.

My conclusion is that a foul was probably missed and the officials incorrectly tried to fix it.

[JetMetFan]

These weren't conflicting calls. As Nevada said, conflicting calls require both (or at least two) officials to make a ruling/blow their whistles. My guess is they handled it this way because it was a summer game but...that's no excuse.

One thing they legitimately could've discussed was which team touched the ball last before it went OOB. We do that all the time when we need help on a play as the calling official or, as the non-calling official, we're 150% sure our partner missed something. The only foul that could have been legitimately discussed in the OP would've been a technical foul for contact after the whistle. Failing that they should have let it go. Sometimes plays are missed.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

... conflicting calls require both officials to blow their whistles ...

Disagree that this requires two whistles. Official A sounds his whistle, and Official B, a split second later, decides not to sound his whistle because he assumes that Official B has the same call. Subsequently, Official B discovers that Official A did not have the same call, so they get together to discuss it to see if they can get it correct.

This is just like the out of bounds help that we occasionally give each other on weird deflections. One whistle. "Hey partner, did you get a good look at that?"

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Disagree that this requires two whistles. Official A sounds his whistle, and Official B, a split second later, decides not to sound his whistle because he assumes that Official B has the same call. Subsequently, Official B discovers that Official A did not have the same call, so they get together to discuss it to see if they can get it correct.

This is just like the out of bounds help that we occasionally give each other on weird deflections. One whistle. "Hey partner, did you get a good look at that?"

With the Out of bounds call, you are bringing information to your partner and your partner makes the decision to change the call. In a situation where there are who conflicting calls, then you are discussing what occured first, not merely providing information to your partner. If there is only one whistle, if makes it hard to justify having a discussion on what occured first.

In theory you may be right, but in reality, if the play is one where I'm going to assert to my partner that something else happened first, then I want to have a whistle. If I don't have a whistle, I'm not pretending like I had one when I don't like my partner's call.

The more common scenario that comes to mind for me is when there is a drive to the basket with some contact on the drive. One official has a whistle, the second official assumes that the first has a foul for the contact. However, the first official has a travel and going the other way. I can't imagine running in and making the case for a foul first if I didn't blow my whistle. If I do have a whistle though, even late, then we are going to discuss what happened first.

[Smitty]

This is probably the first time in, well, ever that I agree with Billy Mac. It's summer ball. Most likely 2-man. The play is in a corner nowhere near my primary, but I happen to have eyes on it. I see the bump. I'm not blowing my whistle that far out of my primary. My partner hits his whistle, I am assuming for the bump. Instead he goes the other way. Takes me about 5-10 seconds to determine whether it's worth it for me to bring him info on the bump - but everyone in the gym saw it except my partner, so I'll go say something.

I work a lot of summer ball and I can see this happening easily. They got the play right.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

With all due respect - it isn't and I have a little bit of experience as well. The differences you talk about in terms of rules (illegal numbers, etc.) are due to the rules in place for a specific tournament. As far as AAU goes, they normally follow NFHS or NCAA rules. If the people running the tournament tell us to handle certain things - cosmetic or otherwise - a certain way then that's what we do because that's who is paying us, which is no different that the regular season.

Regardless of what our best effort may be in terms of how many games we decide to work the manner in which we handle our in-game business overall shouldn't change. If we change the basic way we work between summer and winter it's no wonder we get complaints about consistency.

Billy, I said live-ball fouls.

This isn't a rule issue, it's a mechanics issue. Right or wrong, mechanics often need to be tweaked in summer games.

Now, quite frankly, I fall in with Rich, Smitty, and Billy on this. Are there time limits on how long one can wait? Sure, but it's fuzzy. Is there a minimum threshold for the severity of the foul before I call it like this? Yes, but it's fuzzy.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

This isn't a rule issue, it's a mechanics issue. Right or wrong, mechanics often need to be tweaked in summer games.

Now, quite frankly, I fall in with Rich, Smitty, and Billy on this. Are there time limits on how long one can wait? Sure, but it's fuzzy. Is there a minimum threshold for the severity of the foul before I call it like this? Yes, but it's fuzzy.

Agree.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm also agreeing with Billy.

Originally Posted by Adam

Now, quite frankly, I fall in with Rich, Smitty, and Billy on this.