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A.R. 271. With zeros on the game clock, A1 is fouled in the act of shooting and then after the foul, A1 releases the ball for a try for goal. A1’s try is: 1. Successful; or 2. Unsuccessful. RULING: When a foul and a try for goal sequentially occur at the expiration of time, the official shall use the monitor to determine whether the foul and the try occurred before the reading of zeros on the game clock. 1: When it is determined that the foul occurred before the reading of zeros on the game clock but the try was not released before the reading of zeros, the foul shall be penalized. With the use of the monitor, the official shall be permitted to put the exact time on the game clock as to when the foul occurred. When the officials determine that time should be put back on the game clock , the game has not ended and the goal shall count. When the time of the foul cannot be determined, the official shall be permitted to put the exact time back on the game clock when it can be determined as to when the ball passed through the net. When it is determined with the use of the monitor that both the foul and the try occurred before the reading of zeros on the game clock, the foul shall be penalized and the goal shall count. 2: Since the try was unsuccessful, the official shall use the monitor to determine whether the foul occurred before the reading of zeros on the game clock. When it is determined that the foul occurred before the reading of zeros, the foul shall be penalized. When it can be determined, the officials shall be permitted to put back on the game clock the exact time as to when the foul occurred. (Rule 11-3.1.a.1 and .3) |
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You are. Walt's and JEff's answers are incorrect.
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike |
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You are correct and that is why I did go back to the book. Without a monitor though, I still stand by awarding the free throws and not counting the basket. Maybe I am thinking real world and considering it so near the expiration of time that the timer could not stop the clock. When we are talking about having a whistle at .1 and expecting an immediate recognition by the officials and/or stopping the clock by the timer, I just cannot see ruling that a timing mistake. With a monitor, using NCAA rules, I concede that I am wrong, and thankful I don't do a lot of games with a monitor (yet, hopefully).
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This is the situation to which I was replying, MD: "Same situation - no replay - no definite knowledge of exactly how much time was on the clock ... just the order of events - shot starts; foul happens; buzzer sounds; then noticeably after the buzzer --- shot leaves the shooter's hand and then goes in."
With "no definite knowledge of exactly how much time was on the clock," how are their answers incorrect? In this scenario, a rapid sequence of events, you'd have no idea how much time to put back. shot, foul--ok, official whistles the foul (shots awarded if outcome of game possibly affected) buzzer--time expires ball leaves the shooter's hands--after time has expired, so no basket What is their error? If I'm missing something--and I'm being sincere, not sarcastic--please tell me what. |
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike |
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Got it. And yes, that's correct.
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike |
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Sprinkles are for winners. |
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Lawyers call this "nunc pro tunc" ("now for then" is the rough translation): the wrong answer then is the right answer now!
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I think I had nunc pro tunc at the Vietnamese Pho place yesterday.
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike |
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I am thinking this might not apply to OP as it appears to describe a live ball with clock winding down and the shot at .2 seconds remaining.
However, what would your ruling be if this occurred on a throw-in at .2 seconds? 5-2-5 . . . When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and three-tenths (. 3) of a second or less remains on the clock, a player may not gain control of the ball and try for a field goal. In this situation only a tap could score. NOTE: This rule does not apply if the clock does not display tenths of a second.
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Every time you blow your whistle, 50% of the people LOVE you, and 50% of the people HATE you. Last edited by NoFussRef; Tue Mar 18, 2014 at 02:23pm. |
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I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'” West Houston Mike |
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I am just going to know how much time there was between my whistle and the horn. I don't have to see a clock to know it (though it helps). We have counts all the time that we can use and this is no different. Remember, counts are, by definition, correct even if they are not precise. That is considered definite knowledge. Count the bucket, report the foul, put time back on the clock, shoot 1, players on the lane.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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Clock doesn't start, we have 6 seconds of a BC count, followed by a gap, followed by 3 seconds of a 5 second count, then we notice. We'll take off 9 seconds, even though we know more probably elapsed. This makes me less uncomfortable putting, at minimum, .1 second on the clock if I have definite knowledge the foul was before the horn.
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Sprinkles are for winners. |
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