FT violation?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Ouch, a little harsh don't you think? I am only a third year official. I thought it was a violation and asked my more seasoned varsity partner quickly who said no. I couldn't quote the rule thus would be unable to properly explain to a coach why I called it. To me, "It just is..." is a piss poor excuse to give to coaches. It is a measly little case play and nothing in the rules says anything about this being a violation. Now I know. And I know what you mean about working with officials that don't know the rules, although it is more frustrating when they call traveling on a loose ball slide or 3 seconds while ball is in the backcourt. Those are everyday plays that we should be getting right. I have never seen anyone lose control of the ball on a FT, ever... This is a rare play.
Thanks for the condescention.

Did not knowing this make you commit to studying the case book on a daily basis?

The reason many of us are condescending is that when a situation happens that only happens once in a great while, a lot of officials blow it off and say, "well, that doesn't happen often." They say, "It is a measly little case play." That's a terrible attitude. You didn't know the rule and yet you're still blowing it off.

Even the worst on-court officials can be great with the rules. And if you're a good on-court official, it doesn't cost you anything extra to be great with the rules.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Rich

Did not knowing this make you commit to studying the case book on a daily basis?

The reason many of us are condescending is that when a situation happens that only happens once in a great while, a lot of officials blow it off and say, "well, that doesn't happen often." They say, "It is a measly little case play." That's a terrible attitude. You didn't know the rule and yet you're still blowing it off.

Even the worst on-court officials can be great with the rules. And if you're a good on-court official, it doesn't cost you anything extra to be great with the rules.

I am in the rule book and case book everyday, even before this happened. Just because I read it once or twice doesn't mean it is solidified in the memory banks nor does it mean that I would know the proper procedure for calling a violation or foul, just becuase I read about it. Like I said, I now know the rule, why, the penalty and how to administer it in the future, including whistling outside my PCA and taking the call from a senior official who doesn't know what they are doing either. I wasn't blowing it off, I just hadn't had to put it into practice so I was unsure of myself. In basketball there is book smarts and there are street smarts and you have to have both. I am getting to be pretty book smart, but still have a long way to go with the street smarts.

My point to you and icallfouls is please keep the condescention to yourselves. Isn't this forum's purpose to discuss rules, situations, and anything else basketball for the betterment of the collective group as a whole? Saying "you and are your partner are terrible officials" doesn't help anyone, and it may actually drive people from the forum so they don't continue to improve, this does not benifit our avocation, reputation or help create better officials for the future. What would be benificial is to offer up advice for how to improve and continue to share and pay forward the knowledge that many of you experts on this forum have. We younger officials glean a ton of knowledge and wisdom from those of you that have been doing this for decades, and we appreciate it.

Do you truly think that I just blew it off as "oh it is just a rare play, It doesn't really matter if I missed it." ? If you think this you are wrong. If I was blowing it off, I wouldn't have taken the time to figure out the proper call, and not only that, know I have shared my experience with potentially hundreds of other officials so hopefully, someone else can benefit from my error and prevent them from making the same mistake. I did not "blow it off."

And I would never watch one of your games and say "Oh that is a terrible official" just because you made a mistake. We all make them. No one is perfect. It is and was a learning moment for me and for each of us every time we or a partner makes a mistake. I would tactfully point out the situation to you and ask your opinion on why you did what you did and what you would do in the future.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Ouch, a little harsh don't you think? I am only a third year official. I thought it was a violation and asked my more seasoned varsity partner quickly who said no. I couldn't quote the rule thus would be unable to properly explain to a coach why I called it. To me, "It just is..." is a piss poor excuse to give to coaches. It is a measly little case play and nothing in the rules says anything about this being a violation. Now I know. And I know what you mean about working with officials that don't know the rules, although it is more frustrating when they call traveling on a loose ball slide or 3 seconds while ball is in the backcourt. Those are everyday plays that we should be getting right. I have never seen anyone lose control of the ball on a FT, ever... This is a rare play.
Thanks for the condescention.

Just look at it this way. You came here for information, which is plentiful. Just like anyplace else, people have different ways of communicating. It is up to you to sort through the information and hang onto what you consider useful. The delivery of the information? You may like it, and you may not, but the nastiest guy here will probably speak to you more nicely than your average coach.

You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.

Now for my opinion: Giving an explanation of a violation to a coach is not something to spend a lot of time worrying about. He saw what happened. He heard the whistle. It's kinda self explanatory. At worst, you say "She dribbled it off her foot, that's a violation." How certain of any rule do you have to be before you will actually blow the whistle? Only you can decide.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Just look at it this way. You came here for information, which is plentiful. Just like anyplace else, people have different ways of communicating. It is up to you to sort through the information and hang onto what you consider useful. The delivery of the information? You may like it, and you may not, but the nastiest guy here will probably speak to you more nicely than your average coach.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by just another ref

You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
Now for my opinion: Giving an explanation of a violation to a coach is not something to spend a lot of time worrying about. He saw what happened. He heard the whistle. It's kinda self explanatory. At worst, you say "She dribbled it off her foot, that's a violation." How certain of any rule do you have to be before you will actually blow the whistle? Only you can decide.

Great point. I guess I needed to be more assertive and confident in my own ability and understanding of the rules and go get that one, regardless of how "senior" my partner may be.

[icallfouls]

see below

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

I am in the rule book and case book everyday, Every day? Then it would seem that you should be more familiar. Or were you using it for a pillow? even before this happened. Just because I read it once or twice doesn't mean it is solidified in the memory banks nor does it mean that I would know the proper procedure for calling a violation or foul, just becuase I read about it. Like I said, I now know the rule, why, the penalty and how to administer it in the future, including whistling outside my PCA and taking the call from a senior official who doesn't know what they are doing either. Then how senior were they really? Maybe just older. I wasn't blowing it off, I just hadn't had to put it into practice so I was unsure of myself. In basketball there is book smarts and there are street smarts and you have to have both. I am getting to be pretty book smart, but still have a long way to go with the street smarts.

My point to you and icallfouls is please keep the condescention to yourselves. Isn't this forum's purpose to discuss rules, situations, and anything else basketball for the betterment of the collective group as a whole? Saying "you and are your partner are terrible officials" no one said terrible, you did.doesn't help anyone, and it may actually drive people from the forum if your feelings are hurt, maybe officiating isn't for you. so they don't continue to improve, this does not benifit our avocation, reputation or help create better officials for the future. What would be benificial is to offer up advice myself and others said the best advice - get into the rulebooks - it is advice, sorry you don't see it that way. for how to improve and continue to share and pay forward the knowledge that many of you experts on this forum have. We younger officials glean a ton of knowledge and wisdom from those of you that have been doing this for decades, and we appreciate it.

Do you truly think that I just blew it off as "oh it is just a rare play, It doesn't really matter if I missed it." ? If you think this you are wrong. If I was blowing it off, I wouldn't have taken the time to figure out no you didn't, you could have learned it by READING YOUR RULEBOOK the proper call, and not only that, know I have shared my experience with potentially hundreds of other officials so hopefully, someone else can benefit from my error and prevent them from making the same mistake. I did not "blow it off."

And I would never watch one of your games and say "Oh that is a terrible official" just because you made a mistakenot knowing the rules is not a mistake, a mistake is pointing the wrong direction on an OOB play.. We all make them. No one is perfect. It is and was a learning moment for me and for each of us every time we or a partner makes a mistake. I would tactfully point out the situation to you and ask your opinion on why you did what you did and what you would do in the future.