FT violation?

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

Ouch, a little harsh don't you think? I am only a third year official. I thought it was a violation and asked my more seasoned varsity partner quickly who said no. I couldn't quote the rule thus would be unable to properly explain to a coach why I called it. To me, "It just is..." is a piss poor excuse to give to coaches. It is a measly little case play and nothing in the rules says anything about this being a violation. Now I know. And I know what you mean about working with officials that don't know the rules, although it is more frustrating when they call traveling on a loose ball slide or 3 seconds while ball is in the backcourt. Those are everyday plays that we should be getting right. I have never seen anyone lose control of the ball on a FT, ever... This is a rare play.
Thanks for the condescention.

Wasn't trying to be harsh or condescending, but now here you go.

I really don't think that "being a 3rd year official" is an excuse for not knowing the rules. That particular situation has been in the manuals previously (try your online casebook if you don't, have your manuals with you, it can be found 9.1.1 Situation. It is apparent that more officials need to spend more time on the rules. Do yourself, your partners, and the game a favor, learn the rules.

We aren't getting paid to gradually learn the rules, or learn them as we go. Your said that you are "only a third year official" which is a "piss poor excuse." I have worked college games with 3rd year officials that have saved the crew because they took the time to learn and know the rules while they were working to improve other aspects of their game.

If you have not seen this play ever, work more youth games, it happens. That is why it is in the book, that you have yet to read. Did you even look it up after your game? Do you take your rule books with you to games?

We need our partners to know the rules. Be the partner the crew has confidence in, not the partner we can't go to because rules knowledge is weak.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

...
If you have not seen this play ever, work more youth games, it happens. That is why it is in the book, that you have yet to read. Did you even look it up after your game? Do you take your rule books with you to games?
....

Ahh, you've hit on my pet peeve. It's one thing to not know a rule during a game or halftime discussion. We've all had that happen to us. But I don't understand how a serious official would not then FIRST go to the rule and case books himself before coming to this site to ask other officials what the rule is.

[maven]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

But I don't understand how a serious official would not then FIRST go to the rule and case books himself before coming to this site to ask other officials what the rule is.

Really? It's so much easier to ask you than to pore through the dang books!

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by maven

Really? It's so much easier to ask you than to pore through the dang books!

Your tag line says it best "quality is a habit."

Then next part is developing good habits and eliminating bad habits. The good habit should be to look it up after the game and relay that information to the partner. Finding where the information is located is a good habit, rather than to rely on the work and word of others.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind helping newer officials, but they have to help themselves first.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Your tag line says it best "quality is a habit."

Then next part is developing good habits and eliminating bad habits. The good habit should be to look it up after the game and relay that information to the partner. Finding where the information is located is a good habit, rather than to rely on the work and word of others.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind helping newer officials, but they have to help themselves first.

"You'll learn it better if you look it up yourself and you'll likely find something else you didn't know."

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"You'll learn it better if you look it up yourself and you'll likely find something else you didn't know."

Well said, Thanks Bob!

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"You'll learn it better if you look it up yourself and you'll likely find something else you didn't know."

I'll agree with this Bob.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by maven

It's so much easier to ask you than to pore through the dang books!

And this is the twenty-first century. In my opinion, this Forum is as much of a research tool as a paper, and ink, rulebook, and casebook. We have many tools in our "officials tool belt", rulebook, casebook, mechanics manual, digital versions of the three previously mentioned tools, DVD's of plays, colleagues on our local board, interpreters on our local boards, camps, local board websites, and the Forum. The Forum just happens to be one of those tools, one that wasn't available to us twenty years ago. It's better to "get straight" on the rules here on Al Gore's internet, then to not ever "get straight" on the rules. I know that other Forum members disagree with me, but that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... It's better to "get straight" on the rules here on Al Gore's internet, then to not ever "get straight" on the rules. I know that other Forum members disagree with me, but that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

It's better to look the rule up yourself and THEN come here and say "I read 9.1.1 but I'm still not sure if it applies to my situation".

If you come here without looking it up yourself your first 2 replies might be from "Old School" and you're no better off then when you started.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It's better to look the rule up yourself and then come here.

I won't give you a big argument about this, to each his own, but, why can't "look(ing) the rule up yourself" include looking up the rule on the Forum and reading some "words" on your smartphone, laptop, tablet, or personal computer? I realize that looking something up on the Forum is somewhat different than looking up some "words" in a paper, and ink book, but is it really that different? Would you consider the Forum "Search" feature as "look(ing) up the rule yourself"? It's really not wasting our time because we don't have to respond to questions that we feel are undeserving of our attention.

And, please don't mention (that name) two more times.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

....Would you consider the Forum "Search" feature as "look(ing) up the rule yourself"? ....

I would consider it research. But still, the response might be 2 years old and outdated. So, again, what have you gained?

At what point do you look up the rule yourself? An official needs to be able to navigate through the rule book on their own.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

I have worked college games with 3rd year officials that have saved the crew because they took the time to learn and know the rules while they were working to improve other aspects of their game.

So what was your, and your more experience crew's, piss poor excuse for not knowing a rule that a third year guy knows? ??? !!!!???!!!!???

Just jabbin ya, (although there is a point in there somewhere, I think)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

So what was your, and your more experience crew's, piss poor excuse for not knowing a rule that a third year guy knows? ??? !!!!???!!!!???

Just jabbin ya, (although there is a point in there somewhere, I think)

Your point is valid. But I think the point of icallfoul's rant is that "only being a 3rd year official" is not an excuse to not know a rule b/c there are plenty of 3rd year officials who know the book inside and out.

If you don't know a rule, you just don't know the rule.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Your point is valid. But I think the point of icallfoul's rant is that "only being a 3rd year official" is not an excuse to not know a rule b/c there are plenty of 3rd year officials who know the book inside and out.

If you don't know a rule, you just don't know the rule.

Completely fair enough... and ps - sorry to hear about your member. Sounds like it hurts.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

... and ps - sorry to hear about your member. Sounds like it hurts.

To be part of this club, the initiation was worth it.