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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 26, 2012, 01:31pm
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Good question and one I don't have an answer to. What I do know is that Houston did have most of the FBISD games just a few years ago but lost them and now has gained them back again. Of course Houston lost quite a few Katy games this year to another chapter.
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Last edited by Welpe; Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 01:35pm.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 26, 2012, 01:55pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Here in "The Land of Steady Habits", coaches "vote" for officials who will work the state tournament. Believe it, or not, they actually do a pretty good job selecting officials. They seldom select an official who doesn't deserve to be there. Full disclosure. I have never worked a state tournament game. I've come close a few times, but have never worked the "big show".
I do bet, however, there are some very well deserving officials who don't get picked...perhaps ones that just don't put up with bad coach behavior....or just are not as charismatic but call just as good if not better at calling the game.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 26, 2012, 01:58pm
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I am going to have to agree with the premise that 7IronRef is stating. I think people use the "politics" issue as an excuse too often. And this does not appear to be as much of a political issue as a personal choice. Now I know nothing about Texas situation and it seems like there is an ongoing fight between local groups and that is unfortunate. But that does not mean that some of these issues are not some personal choices. Welpe did say he moved from one association to another. That to me is not politics that is choosing and making the wrong decision if at the end of the day you want to work a certain set of games. Forgive me but that does not seem to be a political problem at all. It does not seem anyone told anyone to not belong to one over the other. Now who has games is a political issue, but not one that involves an individual working games.

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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 26, 2012, 02:12pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I am going to have to agree with the premise that 7IronRef is stating. I think people use the "politics" issue as an excuse too often. And this does not appear to be as much of a political issue as a personal choice. Now I know nothing about Texas situation and it seems like there is an ongoing fight between local groups and that is unfortunate. But that does not mean that some of these issues are not some personal choices. Welpe did say he moved from one association to another. That to me is not politics that is choosing and making the wrong decision if at the end of the day you want to work a certain set of games. Forgive me but that does not seem to be a political problem at all. It does not seem anyone told anyone to not belong to one over the other. Now who has games is a political issue, but not one that involves an individual working games.

Peace
7iron's comments may be right, in general, but to apply his general experience and try connecting the dots with Welpe's post is just stupid.

And even your insinuation that Welpe made a wrong decision is based on incomplete information. We all know some of the crap going on in Texas, and Brad's comments specifically about the Houston area (Welpe's area) shed a bit more light on it all.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 26, 2012, 02:28pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
7iron's comments may be right, in general, but to apply his general experience and try connecting the dots with Welpe's post is just stupid.

And even your insinuation that Welpe made a wrong decision is based on incomplete information. We all know some of the crap going on in Texas, and Brad's comments specifically about the Houston area (Welpe's area) shed a bit more light on it all.
Look, he said he decided to change associations and did not say that he was made to move or was fired from one or the other. None of us are going to know the entire story or claim to know the entire story. I am just saying that based on what was said here, Welpe made a decision and is complaining here partly about the decision. Who gets games is out of all of our control. I know when conference assignors are fired in my area or die (which happen recently) then I cannot control that outcome as to who gets the conference. It could mean realistically I would be out of that conference, but that is nothing I can control. Then again I do not have to put all my eggs in one basket either to work games. I work for enough people that if I get fired from one or the assignors die or are fired, I can get other games. There are people in my area that will work for one or two assignors and if something changes or they do not get moved up their immediate claim is "politics." Not that they go to other assignor's camps or think that because they work for one guy that the others guys may not respect the choices one assignor makes to hire people. People around here think you work for one assignor the others should just fall in line and give me games when in some cases certain assignors do not like each other or think that the quality of the games in one conference is subpar to another conference. That is not politics that is knowing the landscape and adjusting to that landscape.

I do not claim or try to claim I have intimate knowledge of his situation or the specifics of why he made that decision or why one group lost games to the other. I guess to me politics are not about personal decisions or unforeseen situations that come up in this business. Politics if present are about what others do to you to prevent you from working or the structure that keeps you from moving up the ranks. That is not what he stated in his OP. If there is more to the situation I would certainly like to hear it if he wishes to share.

I think we need to stop being so sensitive to what people read into your words. Not everyone here is going to understand all your personal situations.

Peace
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 26, 2012, 02:43pm
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I am relatively new to Texas and I have no idea what the history is between TASO and UIL. And I could really not care less. I just want games. I have already switched associations from Dallas to an adjacent association that swallowed up 3 of Dallas' largest school districts. I made the choice to drive further to many games in order to increase my opportunities overall. The only person in the association organization I care about is the assigner of games. I made sure the assigner knows who I am and has seen me work. I know this will be the best way to make sure I get the best games I can get. The things I cannot control (the "politics") I do not worry about.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 26, 2012, 03:36pm
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Originally Posted by KingTripleJump View Post
How is it that Ft. Bend ISD (one of the largest school districts in the area and state) wasn't using the Houston Chapter to begin with?

Or rather, why?
Football does. Not sure if this is exactly the same reason ... but as an official that lives in Ft. Bend county, driving to the Houston meetings is a VERY long, very crowded drive. Had a meeting at 7:30 once - I left work at 4. I was late. Conversely, the bulk of the football officials in the chapter live closer in, and don't want to work, "way the hell out in Fort Bend".

The geographics of the Houston chapter are just too large... nevermind all the other issues.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 26, 2012, 04:52pm
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I could write volumes on this but I made the switch to a smaller chapter so that the time investment was not as severe, which was best for me and my family. There is something to be said for not driving over an hour one way to attend a meeting or the only offered training from the chapter, let alone the games themselves. The smaller chapter is closer to home and not fraught with as nearly as many problems as the larger. I'm a subvarsity official that wants to work varsity one day but I'm realistic enough to know I'm working the right level right now. This has nothing to do with the quality or level of the games I'm working. It isn't about the politics of how games are assigned.

What I'm frustrated with is losing the ability to work games in a chapter that is a better fit for me due to some serious political struggles going on at a level well above my head. It is not as easy for me as "go join the other guys."

I'm not looking for pity, I understand this is the choice I made when putting my lot in with the loser. I have to admit I was quite surprised to hear our chapter lost an entire school district after having just gained all of it not that long ago.

If I wanted to invest more time and energy into driving all over to attend meetings and training, I'd do it. Heaven knows I already do so for football, including all of those meetings that mbcrowder talks about. If it's going to come down to the point where working games eats too much into my life, then basketball will get dropped and I'll stick with working baseball and football.
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Last edited by Welpe; Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 04:54pm.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 26, 2012, 04:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Look, he said he decided to change associations and did not say that he was made to move or was fired from one or the other. None of us are going to know the entire story or claim to know the entire story. I am just saying that based on what was said here, Welpe made a decision and is complaining here partly about the decision. Who gets games is out of all of our control. I know when conference assignors are fired in my area or die (which happen recently) then I cannot control that outcome as to who gets the conference. It could mean realistically I would be out of that conference, but that is nothing I can control. Then again I do not have to put all my eggs in one basket either to work games. I work for enough people that if I get fired from one or the assignors die or are fired, I can get other games. There are people in my area that will work for one or two assignors and if something changes or they do not get moved up their immediate claim is "politics." Not that they go to other assignor's camps or think that because they work for one guy that the others guys may not respect the choices one assignor makes to hire people. People around here think you work for one assignor the others should just fall in line and give me games when in some cases certain assignors do not like each other or think that the quality of the games in one conference is subpar to another conference. That is not politics that is knowing the landscape and adjusting to that landscape.

I do not claim or try to claim I have intimate knowledge of his situation or the specifics of why he made that decision or why one group lost games to the other. I guess to me politics are not about personal decisions or unforeseen situations that come up in this business. Politics if present are about what others do to you to prevent you from working or the structure that keeps you from moving up the ranks. That is not what he stated in his OP. If there is more to the situation I would certainly like to hear it if he wishes to share.

I think we need to stop being so sensitive to what people read into your words. Not everyone here is going to understand all your personal situations.

Peace
For most of us, politics is local and personal. Who did I piss off? Did I do the right camp? Did I work enough of the crap games this year? Did I attend enough meetings and make sure the right people saw me there?

For some, however, it's political stuff that happens way over our heads. Did they negotiate a decent pay rate? Did our association hold on to the Metro Conference? Did I pick the right association?

Picking the right association can be like picking a route home from work only to find that there is an accident in your path costing you an extra 90 minutes on the drive. It wasn't a "wrong" choice, except in hind sight.

For me, it's easy. There's only one association for high school basketball and we cover a very large area. For you, it's easy, because your conference assigners aren't tied to the association network directly. But when the "right" association for your local games changes due to high level pissing matches, that's not so easy. It's easy to judge from afar, though.

Welpe is relatively new to basketball, and this is the sort of association level politics that tends to drive good officials away. If it's stuff they have control over, it's one thing. Get your face seen, get your name known, go to meetings, work the 7th grade girls games three towns over. But when they pull that rug out, you can expect a bit of frustration from decent officials who just want to play "the game" and get games.
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Last edited by Adam; Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 05:01pm.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 26, 2012, 05:14pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
For me, it's easy. There's only one association for high school basketball and we cover a very large area.
Same here. My local IAABO board is the only game in town for high school basketball, covering three counties, seventy high schools. We hire an assigning commissioner, who works for us. He assigns games under guidelines established by us. The assigning criteria involves ratings, including peer ratings, rankings, and availability, all established by us. We have a committee that reviews his assignments every year to make sure that he fairly assigns games for us. It's about as transparent as you can get.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 26, 2012, 06:10pm
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Same for us

Billy's situation sounds just like ours; except we have 9 high schools and the pacific ocean (well within a couple of hours).

Football and basketball both are small associations where we struggle to get enough officials when most of the teams play at home. All of the assigning is reviewed by the board and if you put some effort into it you can move up to varsity fairly quickly.

It probably helps that we are in a lesser populated area where the big town is between 50K and 60K people. I'm not sure how it works in Seattle but I do know that I don't hear rumblings of political strife and the officials that have moved into our area from the big city haven't said much either.

I really feel for you guys that have struggles off the court.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 27, 2012, 12:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
For most of us, politics is local and personal. Who did I piss off? Did I do the right camp? Did I work enough of the crap games this year? Did I attend enough meetings and make sure the right people saw me there?
This is no different than anyone else I have come in contact with. You will not work in my area unless you are seen by the right person or you do not do the right things or be available when you claim you are available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
For some, however, it's political stuff that happens way over our heads. Did they negotiate a decent pay rate? Did our association hold on to the Metro Conference? Did I pick the right association?
Not stuff any of us can control. As I said we have had conferences change assignors, tournaments and shootouts. You deal with it and move on. Change with the times and work hard and you would be surprised what opportunities come your way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Picking the right association can be like picking a route home from work only to find that there is an accident in your path costing you an extra 90 minutes on the drive. It wasn't a "wrong" choice, except in hind sight.
We all do that from time to time. Again it does not mean your career is over. Heck you know how many camps I have gone to only to not get hired or to not be worth the time? I do not complain about it, I learned from it and chose better the next time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
For me, it's easy. There's only one association for high school basketball and we cover a very large area. For you, it's easy, because your conference assigners aren't tied to the association network directly. But when the "right" association for your local games changes due to high level pissing matches, that's not so easy. It's easy to judge from afar, though.
Well it is not easy here, because you have to go to many camps, please many assignors and hope that when they give games you are not already booked. Or better yet if you are trying to get into college that the certain assignor is not ticked off that those varsity games you just were assigned is not going to take your entire schedule if you give back one date. Then you have to worry about the one assignor thinks that you are not ready for varsity is made when you give back those sophomore games on a Friday that they will not hold that against you in the future. Oh and let us not talk about double booking or other unfortunate issues like not putting the right information on the Arbiter when you close a date.

I never said it was easy or that politics do not occur. It is how you look at it or learn from others to avoid some issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Welpe is relatively new to basketball, and this is the sort of association level politics that tends to drive good officials away. If it's stuff they have control over, it's one thing. Get your face seen, get your name known, go to meetings, work the 7th grade girls games three towns over. But when they pull that rug out, you can expect a bit of frustration from decent officials who just want to play "the game" and get games.
I am running camps right now where people are like Welpe and others that want to get games and get anything they want. Then we have to deal with the guy that wants it all right now. A big part of the politics we deal with is the guy that thinks they are better than everyone and should be working the State Finals or D1 right off the bat. But these same guys give back sophomore games because they are not willing to prove their worth at that level, but only want to work varsity. Then in these camps when we see someone tell a clinician that they have no idea how the fight started and that they were not aware that there were problems before, they cannot understand why they are not assigned an East-West game (any number of schools this could apply to) or the top Christmas tournament. Look I sat on the waiting list for one of the best or most well known in the country for 10 years while thinking the entire time I was worthy. Well I finely got in that tournament and I am so blessed it did not happen sooner.

We all have a process to follow. My point is we should work hard and control those things we can. We cannot control everything in officiating and in life.

Peace
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 27, 2012, 10:39am
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Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
I could write volumes on this but I made the switch to a smaller chapter so that the time investment was not as severe, which was best for me and my family. There is something to be said for not driving over an hour one way to attend a meeting or the only offered training from the chapter, let alone the games themselves. The smaller chapter is closer to home and not fraught with as nearly as many problems as the larger.
I can sympathize and something similar could have easily happened to me after I switched. My new association could have easily not been able to handle the extra school districts and lost them back to Dallas the following season, and then I would be stuck driving 100 miles round trip (at least) to the middle of nowhere every night when I live and work in a big metro area. But I was fortunate that things have been so much better, and Dallas lost more schools to us this season.

Ultimately, this is supposed to be something we enjoy and if it's not enjoyable, we are forced to make tough choices.
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Old Wed Jun 27, 2012, 02:47pm
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Football does. Not sure if this is exactly the same reason ... but as an official that lives in Ft. Bend county, driving to the Houston meetings is a VERY long, very crowded drive. Had a meeting at 7:30 once - I left work at 4. I was late. Conversely, the bulk of the football officials in the chapter live closer in, and don't want to work, "way the hell out in Fort Bend".

The geographics of the Houston chapter are just too large... nevermind all the other issues.

I lived in Houston for 1 year for work. I lived in the Galleria area, worked in Greenway Plaza, and the majority of my games were in Katy.

Unbelievable.

The worst was the 7:00pm tip I had @The Woodlands and didn't get to leave work until 4:45. I looked like a Nascar driver....
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 27, 2012, 03:47pm
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The worst was the 7:00pm tip I had @The Woodlands and didn't get to leave work until 4:45. I looked like a Nascar driver....
What road west were you on that let you drive like a Nascar driver? More likely you were on I-10 or the Westpark, standing beside your car, trying to see why no one was moving.
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