The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 10:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 348
I had an aau game yesterday and this happened, but disregard that and say it was a rivalry game during the season or a championship game in the district, region, etc.

Team A has made a great comeback, and the game is tied with Team A in control of the ball and about 15 seconds left. A1 drives to the hole and scores with about 3 seconds left. B1 goes and quickly tries to inbound the ball. In an attempt to chuck it down the floor he steps forward with his foot and stepped on the line. Not a little bit but about 1/3 of his size 12. So of course I call it and give A the ball back with 1.5 left. A tosses the ball up, it gets touched game over.

I was told after the game that you do not make that call to end the game. He said you let that go because after the game the coach who lost is checking you off and you are not working one of his games again. I agree with the point my superior made about me probably being the only one who saw it so let it go.

It is hard for me to swallow this. I started officiating because I hated the job alot of officials were doing in the assosciation that was allocated to my high school's district. I wanted to up the integrity of the game that I felt the officials in this certain assosciation were not upholding.

I never understood what alot of people meant when they said there was alot of politics involved. I thought they just meant you kissed the bosses #ss real well and got better gigs, but apparently it also means not taking the ball out of the other teams hands with seconds left no matter if they commit an obvious violation.

Please someone help me feel better about me needing to swallow my whistle?









Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 10:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wherever the Army sends me this year
Posts: 267
For what it's worth, and all political stuff aside, I think you made the right call from the way you described it. This situation is no win. If you don't call it and Team A's coach clearly saw the violation that you ignore, you're in the same post-game boat. I think that this blatant a violation must be called. Are there times I would ignore this type of violation. Yes. If they barely touch the line, if the game is a blow-out and no team is pressing, maybe some other situations. I think in this case you called it right. I say good job.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 11:13am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Well, in the first place it is legal for the thrower to step on the line, as you said s/he did above. They can't legally step over the line though--i.e. on the court.

Assuming that's what you meant......

I disagree completely with the "superior" that told you to ignore that call. Not only did the thrower get away with an obvious violation, in this particular case s/he got an unfair advantage out of doing so too. Instead of taking the extra second needed to establish themself legally OOB and set their feet properly, the thrower saved some time with an iillegal move.

Personally, I would rather not officiate than work under circumstances where some goober of a coach could blackball an official for making the proper call. I gotta look at myself in a mirror after the game. I just don't wanna work under those circumstances or for coaches like that in the first place.

How about the other coach and the other team? Certainly not fair to them to ignore a violation just to keep the opposing coach happy, is it?

As for the politics, I'd do a little discreet checking to see if your "superior" wasn't just maybe blowing some smoke up your butt. I can't believe that ignoring an obvious violation would be the norm anywhere, except for maybe- wait for it- the SEC. ()

I wouldn't worry about this particular superior too much. Just nod your head up and down, and then ignore him. If the whole association is like him though, then I don't know what to tell you. You then either put up with it or maybe take up a different game to officiate if it's really bothering you.



Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 11:25am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by johnnyrao
For what it's worth, and all political stuff aside, I think you made the right call from the way you described it. This situation is no win. If you don't call it and Team A's coach clearly saw the violation that you ignore, you're in the same post-game boat. I think that this blatant a violation must be called. Are there times I would ignore this type of violation. Yes. If they barely touch the line, if the game is a blow-out and no team is pressing, maybe some other situations. I think in this case you called it right. I say good job.
What he said.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 11:31am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Posts: 293
Send a message via Yahoo to SeanFitzRef
Sometimes, refTN, you have to get into a situation of 'game management'. That is one of the things that you are judged on in a camp situation. You know the rules, you know what a violation is vs. a foul, you know book definitions. But do you know when to 'pass' on a foul and just call it out of bounds? do you know when to call a push on a rebound vs. a no call because team A got the ball anyway? Those are some of the things that assignors look for, not how many calls you made or how many violations you picked up. I'm hoping this is more of what the superior meant when he made the statment to you, but I wasn't there so I don't know.

And to second JR, I hope you made the call because he stepped OVER the line, and not on it.
__________________
Nature gave men two ends - one to sit on and one to think with. Ever since then man's success or failure has been dependent on the one he used most.
-- George R. Kirkpatrick
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 11:34am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
I do not think this has anything to do with politics. I think that has to do with stupidity. If an evaluator is going to hold over your head something that took place at an AAU game that does not say much about your area. If the call was that obvious and you could see it on tape, I would not worry about it.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 11:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 348
I guess this is where my stupidity kicks in. You mean the player can step on the line as long as his foot is not touching the playing area.

By the way his foot was touching the inbounds area.

Just for my knowledge can I have where this is in the rule book?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 11:48am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally posted by refTN
I guess this is where my stupidity kicks in. You mean the player can step on the line as long as his foot is not touching the playing area.

By the way his foot was touching the inbounds area.

Just for my knowledge can I have where this is in the rule book?
NFHS rule 9-2-5-- "The thrower shall not carry the ball onto the court."

The boundary lines are out-of-bounds. The playing court is in-bounds.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 11:48am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Regarding "on the line" vs "over the line". I think since he also stated that 1/3 of the shoe was "on the line", it's pretty likely a substantial portion of it was inbounds (given a standard court).

Geometrically speaking, the boundary line is only the inside edge of the painted boundary stripe since a line has no width.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 11:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Posts: 293
Send a message via Yahoo to SeanFitzRef
Not stupidity, inexperience.

Yes, a player standing OOB can touch the line, as long as he/she doesn't cross the line and touch the playing area.

Just think of it in reverse. Can a player with a legal dribble on the court touch any part of the line? Class? Anyone? NO Therefore, the line is OOB, and a player standing OOB for a throw-in can touch the line, as long as they don't cross onto the court.
__________________
Nature gave men two ends - one to sit on and one to think with. Ever since then man's success or failure has been dependent on the one he used most.
-- George R. Kirkpatrick
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 11:50am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Rule 7-6-3 and 9-2-11 Penalty

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 11:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Posts: 293
Send a message via Yahoo to SeanFitzRef
Most overlooked part of the rule book. "BASKETBALL FUNDAMENTALS"
__________________
Nature gave men two ends - one to sit on and one to think with. Ever since then man's success or failure has been dependent on the one he used most.
-- George R. Kirkpatrick
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 11:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,557
Like stated the line is OOB. If you work on some bigger courts, they usually have a thick 2 foot "line" painted to mark OOB, the players stand on that durng a throw-in. Same idea.

Quote:
Originally posted by SeanFitzRef
Most overlooked part of the rule book. "BASKETBALL FUNDAMENTALS"
Great section to read every once in a while.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 12:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 96
No rule book quote needed

refTEN ,
I don't have the rulebook here but you don't need it....the end line is out of bounds . Think of it in another way....if the player was inbounds and stepped on the line he would be considered out of bounds . Now just reverse that logic and you have your explanation of why it is ok to step on the line when you are OOB .
A partner of mine called something similar last week (throw in)and was quite emphatic when he smacked the floor and said "stepped ON the line.....Blue ball". Nobody said a word to argued with him so I kept my mouth shut....would anyone have done differently ???? I did mention this to my partner after the game and initally he questioned me on it until we talked a little about it .
I am sure someone will quote the rule book for the out of bounds....
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 16, 2005, 12:08pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 96
evidently my hunt and peck method of typing is REALLLLLY SLOOOOW as 6 people have responded since I started typing the response above .
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:14am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1