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Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 11:46pm
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Ejection and aftermath

I heard about a situation at my game tonight and wanted to get some input on it.

District Tournament game at neutral site. One of the coaches gets two technicals fouls and is ejected. He tells the officials he is not going to leave the court.

The official after being told by the coach won’t leave the gym goes to Game Management to get the coach to leave. The coach and the site manager have a heated exchange and he still refuses to leave the gym. Game Management gets a Police Officer who finally gets the coach off the floor and in the hallway behind the gym. The whole process took four or five minutes.

My thoughts are why involve Game Management; this is a situation that is definitely covered in the rule book. The rule book clearly spells out what happens if coach fails to comply with the penalty for a technical foul, forfeit. Why would we dump this in Game Management’s lap? Tell the coach that if he doesn’t leave the gym his team will forfeit the game. Have the clock operator start the timer and let the coach know he has 60 seconds to leave. Ball is in his court.

Am I over simplifying things?
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Old Wed Feb 22, 2012, 11:50pm
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Originally Posted by JerryLundagard View Post
=My thoughts are why involve Game Management; this is a situation that is definitely covered in the rule book. The rule book clearly spells out what happens if coach fails to comply with the penalty for a technical foul, forfeit. Why would we dump this in Game Management’s lap? Tell the coach that if he doesn’t leave the gym his team will forfeit the game. Have the clock operator start the timer and let the coach know he has 60 seconds to leave. Ball is in his court.

Am I over simplifying things?
You do not want to end a playoff game that way if you can avoid it. There is nothing in the rulebook that says how long we wait and 5 minutes is not a long time if you think about it. I have no problem doing everything you can to remove the coach and that would go in my report so that it is possible that the governing body would take action. But you do not want to just forfeit the game because the coach is a fool and hurt the kids if you can avoid it. You might have more problems if you forfeit the game instead of just waiting.

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Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 12:05am
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Totally agree that this is not the way I want to end the game. However it is the coach that has made that decision, not me.

The penalty is not a secret. Two direct techical fouls are you are disqualified. Why do I need to jump through hoops for the coach that wants to act like a fool. I am not the one penalizing the kids, he is.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 12:10am
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Originally Posted by JerryLundagard View Post
Totally agree that this is not the way I want to end the game. However it is the coach that has made that decision, not me.

The penalty is not a secret. Two direct techical fouls are you are disqualified. Why do I need to jump through hoops for the coach that wants to act like a fool. I am not the one penalizing the kids, he is.

I'm with you. What was the game situation when this happened?
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 12:22am
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Originally Posted by JerryLundagard View Post
Totally agree that this is not the way I want to end the game. However it is the coach that has made that decision, not me.

The penalty is not a secret. Two direct techical fouls are you are disqualified. Why do I need to jump through hoops for the coach that wants to act like a fool. I am not the one penalizing the kids, he is.
I understand where you are coming from, but are you just going to forfeit the game because a coach tells you they are not leaving and then without hesitation forfeit the game? Give them a chance to leave that is all I am saying. At the very least tell them you do have the right to forfeit the game. But I would not just do this just because a coach made a threat. If GM can help, use them. What is the harm? Because your stance on the rules does not give a specific time limit or how you accomplish this. And your state, area or conference might have a method of policy to handle these as well. To say that there a rule is making the situation very simplistic IMO. I am just saying be cautious before you pull that trigger. Once you pull the trigger, you cannot pull it back and the powers that be might have an opinion about not giving them at least 5 minutes to solve the problem. I was in a situation in another sport and my partner did the same. The sports administrator said he made the decision too quickly. So someone with a little more power or in a decision making process might have another opinion. Five minutes is not a major problem. If you said 10 minutes than that is another story.

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Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 12:29am
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I think it was about a 10 point game at the time. There was a little over three minutes left in the game. So at the time the game was still in doubt.

While I would hate to not finish a game in that situation, I kind of feel that is up to the coach.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 12:32am
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Originally Posted by JerryLundagard View Post
While I would hate to not finish a game in that situation, I kind of feel that is up to the coach.
You did not answer my question. Are you going to forfeit the game on the spot because the coach said they are not leaving?

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Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 12:49am
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I understand where you are coming from, but are you just going to forfeit the game because a coach tells you they are not leaving and then without hesitation forfeit the game? Give them a chance to leave that is all I am saying. At the very least tell them you do have the right to forfeit the game. But I would not just do this just because a coach made a threat. If GM can help, use them. What is the harm? Because your stance on the rules does not give a specific time limit or how you accomplish this. And your state, area or conference might have a method of policy to handle these as well. To say that there a rule is making the situation very simplistic IMO. I am just saying be cautious before you pull that trigger. Once you pull the trigger, you cannot pull it back and the powers that be might have an opinion about not giving them at least 5 minutes to solve the problem. I was in a situation in another sport and my partner did the same. The sports administrator said he made the decision too quickly. So someone with a little more power or in a decision making process might have another opinion. Five minutes is not a major problem. If you said 10 minutes than that is another story.

Peace
Valid points, I dont think anyone wants to be the guy that forfeited the game. And if in that situation, I am not sure I would have handled it any differently.

It just makes me wonder, the responsibility for the coaches behavior lies with the coach. He chose to behave in such a manner. I dont think his actions can be defended. If the game is forfeited it is because of him. He is in the wrong. Why do the officials need to bend over backwards to accomodate someone that is clearly in the wrong.

And I know that someone will bring up the kids. Why doesnt the coach take into account the kids when it his behavior that is causing the problem.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 12:55am
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You did not answer my question. Are you going to forfeit the game on the spot because the coach said they are not leaving?

Peace
No I am not going to end the game on the spot. I am going to give the coach a chance to leave. How far, its hard to say. I want to make sure I can defend my actions. I dont want pull the trigger to quick but I also dont want him to make a mockery of the game. In the end though it is up to him.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 01:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You did not answer my question. Are you going to forfeit the game on the spot because the coach said they are not leaving?

Peace
He did answer, before you even asked....

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryLundagard View Post
I heard about a situation at my game tonight and wanted to get some input on it.

District Tournament game at neutral site. One of the coaches gets two technicals fouls and is ejected. He tells the officials he is not going to leave the court.

The official after being told by the coach won’t leave the gym goes to Game Management to get the coach to leave. The coach and the site manager have a heated exchange and he still refuses to leave the gym. Game Management gets a Police Officer who finally gets the coach off the floor and in the hallway behind the gym. The whole process took four or five minutes.

My thoughts are why involve Game Management; this is a situation that is definitely covered in the rule book. The rule book clearly spells out what happens if coach fails to comply with the penalty for a technical foul, forfeit. Why would we dump this in Game Management’s lap? Tell the coach that if he doesn’t leave the gym his team will forfeit the game. Have the clock operator start the timer and let the coach know he has 60 seconds to leave. Ball is in his court.

Am I over simplifying things?
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 01:44am
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Putting 60 seconds on the clock for this is really a courtesy. If he has a "heated exchange" with the site manager, and is still there afterward, all bets are off.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 01:48am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
He did answer, before you even asked....
I did see what he said, but I do not think he was clear how long it would take. After all he said 5 minutes was basically too long.

Peace
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 02:08am
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Personally, I like how the official handled it in the OP. Forfeiting a game, IMO, is an absolute last measure.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 02:31am
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If you let game management handle it, the coach is the one that is going to get in trouble for his behavior afterwards. If you forfeit the game, you are the one that is going to receive all of the scrutiny.

The rulebook says "Failure to comply with the rules of ejection may result in the game being forfeited." (emphasis mine)

The may part is important. It's not a hard and fast requirement. And there is no 60 seconds either — the rule book says they are to leave the vicinity "immediately".

So, if you put 60 seconds on the clock and then forfeit the game, what will be said afterwards? That you didn't apply the rule correctly.

Just let game management and the police officers handle it. That's the most common-sensical approach as well as the one that is going to keep you out of hot water.
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Old Thu Feb 23, 2012, 08:09am
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I'm with JRut on this one. No way I'm forfeiting a playoff/district game unless I've done everything else in my power to remedy the situation. I think it's funny that some people claim that we'd do this by the book if it was them, but let me know what you did when you find yourself in this situation - in a playoff game. Then let me know if you get any more playoff games.
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