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Mon Jul 25, 2005, 04:51pm
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This happened in a game I was playing about 20 years ago & I've been curious ever since. Forgive me if this question sound stupid, but I'm not an upmire.
Runners on 1st & 2nd (ASA rules), base hit to outfield. Lead runner attempting to score arrives as thrown ball arrives at home plate. Collision takes place. Runners momentum takes him beyond home plate by several feet but he did not make contact with home plate. Ball (which was missed by the catcher) rolls to the backstop. Runner from first then cleanly touches home without incident. The pitcher picks up the ball at the backstop and tags the lead baserunner (still sprawled on the ground from collision). Does the other run (man from 1st) count or not. I thought he should have been ruled out for passing the lead runner. 
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Mon Jul 25, 2005, 06:40pm
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Once the runner acquired home, there is no longer a lead runner for the purpose of that rule. Acquiring home, for the purpose of the rule, also means having passed home, whether or not it was touched by the previous runner.
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Scott It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
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Mon Jul 25, 2005, 08:44pm
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A runner who has missed the plate cannot return to touch it once a following runner has scored.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Tue Jul 26, 2005, 10:03am
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True, grey - but the init poster's contention that the 2nd runner passed the 1st is not true, and the 2nd run would score, even if the 1st was called out on appeal after that (timing play).
(Of course, there could be SOMEthing different in the rules 20 years ago that I'm not aware of).
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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Tue Jul 26, 2005, 10:44am
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the init poster's contention that the 2nd runner passed the 1st is not true
Right. Many people assume that some sort of "passing" has taken place in such a situation, but passing must involve physical passing on the basepaths, not simply touching a base that a previous runner missed. It would have helped if the original thread had specified the number of outs, too. For example, if the play started with 2 outs and the appeal of the first runner had been upheld, then the run "scored" by the following runner would not count.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Tue Jul 26, 2005, 01:32pm
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Greymule,
Are you sure that run would not have counted? R1 on 2nd R2 on 1st, if R2 touches home prior to R1 being tagged then the run would have counted as this appeal for the missed base is a timing play in this case correct? Now if bases were loaded then I would agree with you as the runner would not hvae advanced safely and the 3rd out in that case would have nullified the run. But in the situation as described I think if R2 touched plate prior to F1 tagging R1 then we would have a run scored no matter how many outs there were. Am I thinking right??
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Tue Jul 26, 2005, 04:22pm
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Not true, Grey - the run DOES count. That was my point above. The appeal is a timing play, not a force, and there is no basis for denying the run if scored prior to the appeal.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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