OBS call and aftermath

[DTQ_Blue]

I had a rec game last week as BU. Kid steals 2B, F2s throw goes into CF. As R1 tries to quickly pop back onto his feet and round 2B, F4 can't get out of his way fast enough and there is some momentary body contact. I verbal OBS and put my left arm out. F8 has the ball quickly, and R1 never had a real chance to go to 3B, even if there had been no OBS. However R1 looks at my left arm extended, which of course is pointing at 3B and casually starts to 3B. The defense is looking at me like I'm nuts, but never makes an attempt to tag R1. After R1 reaches third the coach of the defense is on the field saying that his F4 wasn't trying to "interfere" with the runner and I said "Coach, I never awarded him third base, he took it on his own."

Any comments on how I handled the play. My thinking is if you see OBS, you call OBS in case you later need to invoke protection of the runner. I never thought that a DDB signal with a closed fist would be taken as telling the runner to advance a base.

[Steven Tyler]

You used a FED mechanic for what could have been an OBR modified rule game. However when you called obstruction, you had him protected to 3B whether he would have made it or not.

If the players stop playing, there is nothing you can do about it. Hopefully now, they have been educated

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

You used a FED mechanic for what could have been an OBR modified rule game. However when you called obstruction, you had him protected to 3B whether he would have made it or not.

If the players stop playing, there is nothing you can do about it. Hopefully now, they have been educated

If it was an OBR game, then it was obstruction without a play. There's no minimum required award for that.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

I had a rec game last week as BU. Kid steals 2B, F2s throw goes into CF. As R1 tries to quickly pop back onto his feet and round 2B, F4 can't get out of his way fast enough and there is some momentary body contact. I verbal OBS and put my left arm out. F8 has the ball quickly, and R1 never had a real chance to go to 3B, even if there had been no OBS. However R1 looks at my left arm extended, which of course is pointing at 3B and casually starts to 3B. The defense is looking at me like I'm nuts, but never makes an attempt to tag R1. After R1 reaches third the coach of the defense is on the field saying that his F4 wasn't trying to "interfere" with the runner and I said "Coach, I never awarded him third base, he took it on his own."

Any comments on how I handled the play. My thinking is if you see OBS, you call OBS in case you later need to invoke protection of the runner. I never thought that a DDB signal with a closed fist would be taken as telling the runner to advance a base.

Next time, just point at the situation and say "THAT"S OBSTRUCTION!" and don't use that stupid, useless mechanic. It has been the source of problems for years. I do not even use it in FED games because it is a stupid mechanic. If you make the call loud enough you scare the crap out of the players, they stop, you call "TIME" and make the awards needed in whatever rule set you are calling in. Nice and simple!

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

.

That's because the particpants do not KNOW nor should they Umpire signals.

All they see is your hand out and saying That's OBS and when you use the FED mechanic it can be confusing to the participants.

Also, since you used the FED OBS mechanic one would assume (I know I know) that you wre playing a Rec legaue game that uses FED rules.

In FED, once you signal OBS the obstructed runner at a minimum gets one base beyond the point of OBS. In your OP that would be 3rd base.

OBR is different because of Type "A" / Type "B" meaning R1 doesn't automatically get 3rd base if you judged that absent the OBS R1 whould only be protected back to second base.

In a nusthell use the OBR mechanic for signalling OBS. It's less confusing.

Pete Booth

[DTQ_Blue]

Pete, is the OBR mechanic to just point at the play and give the verbal? I'd know this if I worked a lot of OBR games and attended the clinics, etc, but I'm mainly a FED softball guy who was helping out my assignor with an uncovered rec hardball game.

I do know about the a and b types of OBS, so the question assumes that this is not an a type OBS.

[PeteBooth]

Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue

Pete, is the OBR mechanic to just point at the play and give the verbal? I'd know this if I worked a lot of OBR games and attended the clinics, etc, but I'm mainly a FED softball guy who was helping out my assignor with an uncovered rec hardball game.

I do know about the a and b types of OBS, so the question assumes that this is not an a type OBS.

In OBR you simply point (do not leave arm extended) and say that's OBS.

In OBR there are 2 types of OBS - Type "A" ball immediately dead and Type "B" ball delayed dead.

Type A - is when there is a play on the obstructed runner.

The 2 most common types of Type "A" are a pickoff attempt on the part of F1 or a run-down situation.

In OBR Type "A" the call is

1. TIME
2. That's OBS
3. The obstructed runner gets a minimum of one base beyond the point of OBS regardless if the runner was going forward or back-ward. In the case of a pick-off attempt at first base, even though R1 was diving back into the bag since it's Type A R1 gets second base

In OBR Type "B" there is no play on the obstructed runner as in your OP.

You signal That's Obstruction and keep play alive UNTIL there is a tag attempt on the obstructed runner or the obstructed runner reaches his protected to base.

When there is a tag attempt you make the call - out or safe

Then signal TIME

In OBR Type B you decide which base IF ANY the runner would have achieved absent the OBS.

In your OP under OBR rules, you would have protected the runner to second base only, therefore, if there was a play on R2 at third base and R2 was out, the out call would stand.

In FED there is no such distinction as Type A and Type B as mentioned in FED the obstructed runner is awarded a minimum of one base beyond the point of the OBS.

Pete Booth

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If it was an OBR game, then it was obstruction without a play. There's no minimum required award for that.

You're right. I worded it poorly for sure. The OP said he would have probably been out. But on the other hand, he might have been safe. Depending if a play was made, and the severity of the obstuction I would probably had the runner protected to 3B. If R2 stops and sauters to 3B, and a play was made on him, I would have an out.

Personally, picturing the play in my head, I wouldn't have called obstruction. I think we've all seen a fielder trying to make a play, and the runner trying to advance at same time.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[DG]

Last week I had 2 obstructions, not in same game, both FED rules. In one the runner was in a rundown between 2nd and 3rd and I stuck the left fist out. The rundown lasted a bit, and finally runner was tagged and I called TIME and awarded 3b. Offensive coach is saying "that's interference" from the get go and when it is all over I have to explain obstruction, not interference, and it's a delayed dead ball to offensive coach and then do same for defensive coach who comes out for explanation. "Darndest thing I ever heard" is what he said as he walked off.

Later in the week I had one on another rundown between home and 3rd. When I saw it I pointed distinctly and snapped off "that's obstruction". Everyone seemed to stop what they were doing and the tag came quickly. No questions from anybody after the award on that one.

I think I will drop the left fist entirely. The other works much better.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by DG

Later in the week I had one on another rundown between home and 3rd. When I saw it I pointed distinctly and snapped off "that's obstruction". Everyone seemed to stop what they were doing and the tag came quickly. No questions from anybody after the award on that one.

Just like a balk, I say it loud enough to hopefully stop the action -- it's easier that way.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

OBR Type "B" there is no play on the obstructed runner as in your OP.

You signal That's Obstruction and keep play alive UNTIL there is a tag attempt on the obstructed runner or the obstructed runner reaches his protected to base.

When there is a tag attempt you make the call - out or safe

Then signal TIME

In OBR Type B you decide which base IF ANY the runner would have achieved absent the OBS.

Pete:

I have a question about a Type B Obstruction. B/R is obstructed while rounding 2B in attempt to stretch a double into a triple. At the time of the obstruction there no play being made on the B/R, after which a throw is made to F5 at 3B and F5 tags B/R out as he slides into 3B.

Is your above description the correct way to handle the play I just described? Thanks.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. I do agree with you about the DDB signal in NFHS. Just point and announce.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by DG

I think I will drop the left fist entirely. The other works much better.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. You could point and call it, and then extend the left arm.

(And, then do as I do, drop the left arm after a few seconds. IMO, the left arm is for those who don't see / hear the original call. When they see the left arm they know "that's something" even if they're not quite sure what it is.)

[dash_riprock]

Me too. I'll give the DDB signal with the OBS call to satisfy the FED rule, then the arm comes down.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Pete:

I have a question about a Type B Obstruction. B/R is obstructed while rounding 2B in attempt to stretch a double into a triple. At the time of the obstruction there no play being made on the B/R, after which a throw is made to F5 at 3B and F5 tags B/R out as he slides into 3B.

Is your above description the correct way to handle the play I just described? Thanks.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. I do agree with you about the DDB signal in NFHS. Just point and announce.

As you describe it, as soon as you call him out, you award him 3B if in your opinion he'd have reached 3B minus the OBS. Sometimes (Type B) can me very subtle...but if the runner has to alter his path to the base, the runner who would've been safe minus the OBS, is now out on a banger. That's the point of the Type B. In FED, since they don't have Type B...I may not call OBS on certain plays because I'm not going to award the runner a cheap base. (Only certain situations)

[DG]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

As you describe it, as soon as you call him out, you award him 3B if in your opinion he'd have reached 3B minus the OBS. Sometimes (Type B) can me very subtle...but if the runner has to alter his path to the base, the runner who would've been safe minus the OBS, is now out on a banger. That's the point of the Type B. In FED, since they don't have Type B...I may not call OBS on certain plays because I'm not going to award the runner a cheap base. (Only certain situations)

In this situation I would not call him out, if I am going to award him the base. I would just call TIME, runner is awarded 3b on the obstruction. And then of course, you will explain it to the defensive coach who is going to come out for explanation.

In FED, all obs is called like type B, in that it is always delayed dead ball. The defense may throw the ball away in a rundown for example, so in FED you let that happen and award bases accordingly.