My New #1 Myth

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I think this is a stretch, and I think you continue to misuse the term "myth." Over the back and reach aren't myths. It is just terminology the average basketball person uses to describe general actions they think are illegal. Over the back almost universally applies to rebounding action.

What, do you want fans and coaches to yell "That's an illegal push in the back on the rebound!!" Come on.

Getting high and mighty about terms like these isn't going to change anything, if anything it's going to make you look either out of touch or a little too big for your britches. These kinds of terms aren't going away. The best you can do is learn how to communicate with coaches and players in spite of them.

That's exactly why there are myths. "Over the back" is the terminology used for the myth that reaching over another player's back without making contact is a foul. "Reaching" is the terminology for the myth that reaching across a dribbler's arm without making contact is a foul.

The correct response to "over the back" and "reaching" is they aren't fouls. Using them just promotes the idea that contact isn't a necessary component to a personal foul.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by fiasco

What, do you want fans and coaches to yell "That's an illegal push in the back on the rebound!!" Come on.

You're missing the point.

A push is not OVER the back. "Over" means zero contact. Look at FortMoney's "breaking the plane" example. THIS is the myth, and the words we choose can make or break myths.

You can't be afraid of looking "high and mighty" when dealing with these terms. You can get your point across without doing so. We're the officials. If we're not going to call "over the back" fouls, then perhaps we should say so.

[fortmoney]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I just don't get why this annoys people. Coaches and players are simply going to use these terms and I'm going to continue to call my game. We aren't going to take those words out of people's vocabularies and it's silly to even try.

What annoys me probably the most is that I know there are older and less ambitious officials out there calling these fouls and somewhat validating these myths, in the eyes of the uninformed fan. This year, in an adult league I play in, I overheard an official explaining to one of my teammates about "over the back." He said as soon as the person behind "breaks the plane," its a foul. Of course I immediately informed my teammate this was certainly not the case.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by fortmoney

What annoys me probably the most is that I know there are older and less ambitious officials out there calling these fouls and somewhat validating these myths, in the eyes of the uninformed fan. This year, in an adult league I play in, I overheard an official explaining to one of my teammates about "over the back." He said as soon as the person behind "breaks the plane," its a foul. Of course I immediately informed my teammate this was certainly not the case.

Those officials are there for the paycheck and haven't cracked open a book or been to a meeting in years. I'm not sure we reach many of them no matter what we do.

[fortmoney]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Those officials are there for the paycheck and haven't cracked open a book or been to a meeting in years. I'm not sure we reach many of them no matter what we do.

Exactly, and combined with my youth, it gives me a harder time. Even though I know I'm right, I'm not getting any respect from the fans or coaches because "I'm a young guy who hasn't learned all the rules yet."

[tref]

Originally Posted by fortmoney

Having done a lot of 5th/6th grade rec ball this season, I have been dealing with this constantly. "Over the back!"s and "He's reachin' in!"s are rampant. It's quite annoying to have to hold back my remarks and just call the correct game.

Why hold back?

Coach: Over the back.
Official: No contact no foul, coach.
At this level on the next dead ball you could explain that on the back is a foul but over the back minus contact isnt. Sometimes on the back that doesnt result in possession consequence wont get a whistle.

Coach: He's reachin' in.
Official: Again, no contact no foul, coach.
At this level on the next dead ball you could explain how it would be tough for defenders to get steals without reaching.

JMO

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Why hold back?

Coach: Over the back.
Official: No contact no foul, coach.
At this level on the next dead ball you could explain that on the back is a foul but over the back minus contact isnt. Sometimes on the back that doesnt result in possession consequence wont get a whistle.

Coach: He's reachin' in.
Official: Again, no contact no foul, coach.
At this level on the next dead ball you could explain how it would be tough for defenders to get steals without reaching.

JMO

I guess I assumed he was talking about fan comments. Best to hold back.

If he's talking about coaches, at the 5th/6th grade level, then I will give one quick "he didn't touch him" or "it's not illegal to reach, coach." After that, one warning that I don't need his help.

If that doesn't work, we're shooting free throws.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by tref

Why hold back?

Coach: Over the back.
Official: No contact no foul, coach.
At this level on the next dead ball you could explain that on the back is a foul but over the back minus contact isnt. Sometimes on the back that doesnt result in possession consequence wont get a whistle.

Coach: He's reachin' in.
Official: Again, no contact no foul, coach.
At this level on the next dead ball you could explain how it would be tough for defenders to get steals without reaching.

JMO

That is not a good thing to say. A player can reach in or go over the back and make contact with his opponent without fouling him.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Cobra

That is not a good thing to say. A player can reach in or go over the back and make contact with his opponent without fouling him.

That was his point...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

That was his point...

No, his point was that there can't be a foul without contact. The coach is going to hear it that way and in his mind add the unspoken, "if there's any contact it's a foul."

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

That was his point...

No. The coach says, "Hey, that is over the back." He says, "No contact, no foul." He should say, "No illegal contact which hindered the opponent from preforming his normal movements."

[JetMetFan]

I've told my own kids and other people for years: I don't give technical fouls or throw someone out of a game. Players/Coaches do that to themselves. I'm just the person who has to enforce it.

[tref]

Originally Posted by fortmoney

Respect from fans and coaches should not be the purpose for the calls we make, but their disrespect sure does challenge me when I'm on the court.

As you gain experience you will come to understand that as long as they're keeping score in a competitive setting & once the clock reads triple zeros, we will have a winner & a loser. Half of the people involved (coaches/players/fans) will not like your call half of the time.

You will either accept this or continue to let it bother you. Remember, our appearance, signals & court presence are what commands respect long before we blow our whistle. Our attitude toward pushback should be, "what I do speaks so loud that I cannot hear what you say."

We cannot control the respect of fans, but improving our call accuracy will lead to credibility & if we're lucky, everything else falls into place.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by tref

As you gain experience you will come to understand that as long as they're keeping score in a competitive setting & once the clock reads triple zeros, we will have a winner & a loser. Half of the people involved (coaches/players/fans) will not like your call half of the time.

You will either accept this or continue to let it bother you. Remember, our appearance, signals & court presence are what commands respect long before we blow our whistle. Our attitude toward pushback should be, "what I do speaks so loud that I cannot hear what you say."

We cannot control the respect of fans, but improving our call accuracy will lead to credibility & if we're lucky, everything else falls into place.

Stealing some of this for my pre-game.

[tref]

Its all recycled.