The Myth that will not Die!!

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Rules review for our association this week........

ASA 2001 exam question:

88. (FP Only) The batter has a 2-2 count when he swings at the next pitch and the ball hits his fingers rolling out into the infield. The umpire should rule:

TAKE A BIG GUESS WHAT AT LEAST THREE EXPERIENCED UMPIRES HOLLERED OUT???

To be honest........growing up, and probably into High School......I believed this myth......

Oh.........BTW......the choices are...

(a) dead ball, foul, batter remains batting.
(b) dead ball, strike three, batter is out.
(c) dead ball, award batter first base.
(d) live ball, batter becomes a batter-runner.

Comments welcome.........and the first one to guess correctly (at what was hollered)........wins a chance to umpire in a perfect game where every call goes unquestioned and you ABSOLUTELY nail every call.

Have a great weekend all!!

Joel

BTW........I have instructed all three of my daughters as to the correct response to this question.......maybe it will die if we all teach our children and go over it at every plate meeting.

[Edited by Gulf Coast Blue on Mar 5th, 2001 at 04:52 PM]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Joel,

You may be surprised to know that there are quite a few veterans out there that believe the hand is part of the bat. Of course, that is part of the reason ASA issues an annual test. Not to try to quiz and trick those taking it (like those idiots @ NFHS), but to get the umpire to look at the rule and learn something. To many guys have a hard time understanding that rules change and it is their job to keep up with them. And that is not a sexist comment, because I have never met a female umpire who wasn't ready and willing to learn as much as they can about the game and that comes from the uphill many of them fight yearly.

I will give a state clinic tomorrow and I guarantee you that the dumbest questions will not come from the new umpires. Happens every year and I don't expect this one to be any different.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

The dumbest question is the one that goes unasked!

Mike......I know you have been exhasperated by some of my questions over the last year or so.......(grin)

I.......probably like many other umpires have made numerous boo-boo's over the years.

I feel that the type of discussions that we have on these boards are extremely valuable.

It makes the veterans and non-veterans alike.......think things through and go to the book to get things right.

My first year on the ASA test........I took it after all the rule clinics and such and it took me probably 3 days (I know I spent at least 8 hours looking stuff up) to be confident in my answers.

On at least 25-30% of the test that I felt confident on, I found that I was either incorrect......or correct for the wrong reason (And this was after having coached SB for 6 years). I had also umped BB when I was in college many years earlier.

Every year it has gotten easier........but the knowledge I have gained here has been invaluable.

Joel

[oppool]

I just want to agree with Joel's words all the help I've been getting from the vet's in here has been fully apprecitated sometimes I read a rule so many times it becomes confusing and your expert words usally clarifies any misunderstandings.

Now for that ASA test Joel is much quicker than myself usally takes me all week that I have to look and relook till I'm sure I've got it right but it sure makes the job alot easier and funner when you do know the rule when those sticky situations happen!!


Thanks

Don

[IRISHMAFIA]

Joel,

I was not refering to anyone on this or McGriff's board, but the old crusty veterans that learned to umpire 30 years ago and haven't cracked a rule book since.

As for the "unasked" question being the dumbest is not always true. I sat through a Fed Clinic this year and the clinician spent 15 minutes explaining the appeal process, live ball and dead ball. There was a veteran who apparently calls ONLY Federation rules who could not grasp an umpire allowing a request for time for the purpose of a dead ball and wanted to know why they just can't keep doing it the way he has been doing it for years by just declaring a runner out. His redundant questions lasted more than the 15 minutes the clinician spent on the rule. The clinician eventually just asked the umpire to reread the rule in this year's book and moved on.

Actually, the rest of us appreciated the break as almost everyone else at one point or the other, went to the bathroom and got a soda during the discussion.

BTW, when we run a New Umpire Clinic, we give them two hours to complete the test. We allow discussion between the participants. We also provide knowledgeable monitors who roam around the room. When a person or group is hung up on something, they will ask the questions and provide scenarios which will lead them to look up the proper ruling. But at no time do we supply them with the answers.

On the other hand, a few years ago I took a serious look at the tests turned in by umpires in my area. I was shocked to find out that of 70 test, 11 scored less than a 70 and they were all veterans on an OPEN BOOK test. These are the guys who just believe they know the rules and don't bother opening the book.

The ASA test is there to help educate, not frustrate the umpires, but it is nothing more than a tool that cannot help an umpire unless he or she decides to use it.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Mike........

I know you were not talking about us.......

I was just poking a little fun at myself......

I meant that I have been that old Smitty at times......sticking to the time honored traditions of "The Days of Yesteryear".

When I was "just a coach", I know I did some stoooopid stuff......and did not know what I should have.

Maybe that's why I give a little leeway now?

Joel

[IRISHMAFIA]

Joel,

I have to admit there are days when I run into coaches that do and/or say some things that are so stupid and off-base, it is entertaining.

Thank God the teams don't charge us a "cover" for entertaining us d:-)

Mike

[Just Curious]

Ok.... So what are the answers correct and mythical?
Chuck

[Dakota]

(a) dead ball, foul, batter remains batting.

Incorrect. Not even close; ball remains in fair territory.

((b) dead ball, strike three, batter is out.

Correct. Batter swung and missed. Ball hit batter on the hands. Batter is out on strike three (swing and miss - ball did not hit the bat). Ball is dead because it hit the batter.

RULE 7. BATTING SECTION 6. The Batter Is Out A. When the third strike is swung at, missed and the pitched ball touches any part of the batter's person.
EFFECT - Section 6 A-I: The ball is dead and each runner must return to the base legally held at the time of the pitch.


((c) dead ball, award batter first base.

Incorrect. This is not a hit-by-pitch, because the batter swung at the ball.

((d) live ball, batter becomes a batter-runner.

Incorrect. myth call - "the hands are part of the bat" is the myth. IF the hands were indeed part of the bat, this would be a slow grounder that the batter would try to beat out, hence you will see this incorrect call being made in this situation. More commonly, however, will be the chorus from the parents of the offensive team... "The hands are part of the bat, fair ball...."


[Edited by Dakota on Mar 5th, 2001 at 03:58 PM]

[Bandit]

I have taken the FED test and am currently working on the ASA test. I have found the FED test always easier than the ASA test. I also like the fact that you have to take the ASA test yearly. It helps keep things fresh and sometimes reminds us of little things we may forget on those cold winter days. I've found the ASA Case Book very helpful. Take a look at Play #'s 7.4-7 & 7.4-8....

[John Arduini]

I find that it gets really interesting when the ball rolls foul in this situation. Everybody screaming this is a foul ball, how can you say strike three? Of course the answer is the ball is dead as soon as it hits the batter and we haven't even started to figure out if its fair or foul. But he swung at it before he was hit. Strike 3 and you're out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

>>I have found the FED test always easier than the ASA test

You can't be serious! If you are, you are the first I have ever knowling met which thinks so.

[Steve M]

I think the Fed test is easier, unless you spend time thinking about your answers. The Fed folks seem to be trying to trick you with something that's "almost" right. I think they are trying to get us to think & consider everything - but they go about it poorly. The ASA tests do make you think, but I have not seen any of the same kind of tricks.

[oppool]

On the ASA test I do find it to be challenging but a very good learning tool we are given the test to take home and have it for 1 week before turning it in. I usally like to make copies and do it the first time without looking at the book then look up the answers afterwords for each question. I know that my score before opening up the book each year has gone up alot after coaching and playing for about 15 years the 1st time I did it without opening the book I found out how much I did not know.

Anyway in or chapter you must get 70 or above on the test to umpire and if you score 90 or above you get $1 more per game which adds up since I did 400+ games last year.

Test scores the last three years has been 97, 100 & 98. I blew 2 this year one I looked to hard at another I probably didnt look hard enough at.

Games start at 7:00 tonight Oh Boy!!


Have a good one guys

Don

[refjef40]

Gulf Coast,Just wanted to let you know that in the first varsity game of the season this year a coach protested the game.This coach with 20 plus seasons protested because his girl was called out on a swinging strike three that hit her hand on the bat.At the next game I had him and at hte pre-game meeting he said he was sure the hand was part of the bat and didn't understand why his appeal was turned down!Your right the myth won't die!