My New #1 Myth

[fortmoney]

Having done a lot of 5th/6th grade rec ball this season, I have been dealing with this constantly. "Over the back!"s and "He's reachin' in!"s are rampant. It's quite annoying to have to hold back my remarks and just call the correct game.

More toward your point Bainsey, I had a game yesterday that was close to the wire. B is down 2 and B1 drives the extremely cluttered lane and tries to force up a shot, and my opinion was that he was not fouled and touched the ball last before it went OOB. Coach B is upset, fine, I hand the ball to A and start going down the court. Assistant Coach B jumps off the bench as I am passing and yells YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME and I pop him with a T. I tell him to take a seat and he continues to stand and lowers his tone, begging me not to give him a T (I'm guessing he didn't want the game to be out of reach due to his actions). I didn't say anything but I was thinking to myself, too bad, if you didn't want that for your team, you would have stayed on the bench. A won by 4

[Rich]

Originally Posted by fortmoney

Having done a lot of 5th/6th grade rec ball this season, I have been dealing with this constantly. "Over the back!"s and "He's reachin' in!"s are rampant. It's quite annoying to have to hold back my remarks and just call the

I just don't get why this annoys people. Coaches and players are simply going to use these terms and I'm going to continue to call my game. We aren't going to take those words out of people's vocabularies and it's silly to even try.

[26 Year Gap]

You penalize the OTHER team by not making the call.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I just don't get why this annoys people.

Here's why.

When people say "over the back" and "reaching" fouls, they perpetuate myths that all you have to do is invade someone's personal space to commit a foul. The smarter the fan base is, the easier the job for all of us.

Meanwhile, we can just sit back and say, "Oh well, that's just the way fans/coaches are." I don't believe that. I believe those that are interested in the game would like to know when they've believing in a myth. I've talked to a number of people that weren't aware of many of the rules we've come to learn, and these are people that are genuinely interested.

Do we teach these things during a game? No, that's very seldom the time or the place, especially at the high school level. We have jobs to do. However, I see no harm in getting the word out when fallacies take over facts. To the contrary, I believe they help, even if it takes a lot of small ripple effects along the way.

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Depends how loud it was? Volume has got nothing to do with it. A player directs an f**k y*u to me it's a T....whether or not anyone else heard him.

I agree, if I hear the F Bomb, it's a T. I heard BullSh!T and that was a T also.

There is no excuse ( maybe one, a hit to the man area ) for profanity.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by refiator

With me, it depends on how loud it was. If it's "under his breath" I will likely pass, but speak to him. If it's loud enough for all to hear, no choice..."T".

A quiet "f#ck" that is likely out of personal frustration, and I'm the only one who hears it: I'll remind the player to watch her language.

A quiet "f#ck you," on the other hand.... If it's under her breath, I won't hear it. Conversely, if I hear it, it's not under her breath.

[fortmoney]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I just don't get why this annoys people. Coaches and players are simply going to use these terms and I'm going to continue to call my game. We aren't going to take those words out of people's vocabularies and it's silly to even try.

What annoys me probably the most is that I know there are older and less ambitious officials out there calling these fouls and somewhat validating these myths, in the eyes of the uninformed fan. This year, in an adult league I play in, I overheard an official explaining to one of my teammates about "over the back." He said as soon as the person behind "breaks the plane," its a foul. Of course I immediately informed my teammate this was certainly not the case.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by fortmoney

What annoys me probably the most is that I know there are older and less ambitious officials out there calling these fouls and somewhat validating these myths, in the eyes of the uninformed fan. This year, in an adult league I play in, I overheard an official explaining to one of my teammates about "over the back." He said as soon as the person behind "breaks the plane," its a foul. Of course I immediately informed my teammate this was certainly not the case.

Those officials are there for the paycheck and haven't cracked open a book or been to a meeting in years. I'm not sure we reach many of them no matter what we do.

[fortmoney]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Those officials are there for the paycheck and haven't cracked open a book or been to a meeting in years. I'm not sure we reach many of them no matter what we do.

Exactly, and combined with my youth, it gives me a harder time. Even though I know I'm right, I'm not getting any respect from the fans or coaches because "I'm a young guy who hasn't learned all the rules yet."

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fortmoney

Exactly, and combined with my youth, it gives me a harder time. Even though I know I'm right, I'm not getting any respect from the fans or coaches because "I'm a young guy who hasn't learned all the rules yet."

If you're in it for the respect of the fans and coaches, you're in the wrong job.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Here's why.

When people say "over the back" and "reaching" fouls, they perpetuate myths that all you have to do is invade someone's personal space to commit a foul. The smarter the fan base is, the easier the job for all of us.

Meanwhile, we can just sit back and say, "Oh well, that's just the way fans/coaches are." I don't believe that. I believe those that are interested in the game would like to know when they've believing in a myth. I've talked to a number of people that weren't aware of many of the rules we've come to learn, and these are people that are genuinely interested.

Do we teach these things during a game? No, that's very seldom the time or the place, especially at the high school level. We have jobs to do. However, I see no harm in getting the word out when fallacies take over facts. To the contrary, I believe they help, even if it takes a lot of small ripple effects along the way.

I think this is a stretch, and I think you continue to misuse the term "myth." Over the back and reach aren't myths. It is just terminology the average basketball person uses to describe general actions they think are illegal. Over the back almost universally applies to rebounding action.

What, do you want fans and coaches to yell "That's an illegal push in the back on the rebound!!" Come on.

Getting high and mighty about terms like these isn't going to change anything, if anything it's going to make you look either out of touch or a little too big for your britches. These kinds of terms aren't going away. The best you can do is learn how to communicate with coaches and players in spite of them.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fiasco

What, do you want fans and coaches to yell "That's an illegal push in the back on the rebound!!" Come on.

"Pushing" "Displacement"

When a coach uses one of those terms (or some form thereof), my respect for him/her goes way up.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I think this is a stretch, and I think you continue to misuse the term "myth." Over the back and reach aren't myths. It is just terminology the average basketball person uses to describe general actions they think are illegal. Over the back almost universally applies to rebounding action.

What, do you want fans and coaches to yell "That's an illegal push in the back on the rebound!!" Come on.

Getting high and mighty about terms like these isn't going to change anything, if anything it's going to make you look either out of touch or a little too big for your britches. These kinds of terms aren't going away. The best you can do is learn how to communicate with coaches and players in spite of them.

I wouldn't disagree with this if I hadn't had too many coaches ask for "reach" and "over the back" when there's obviously no contact. That said, I don't blame them. I blame the officials who should know better but still report fouls with this terminology.

[tref]

Originally Posted by fortmoney

Having done a lot of 5th/6th grade rec ball this season, I have been dealing with this constantly. "Over the back!"s and "He's reachin' in!"s are rampant. It's quite annoying to have to hold back my remarks and just call the correct game.

Why hold back?

Coach: Over the back.
Official: No contact no foul, coach.
At this level on the next dead ball you could explain that on the back is a foul but over the back minus contact isnt. Sometimes on the back that doesnt result in possession consequence wont get a whistle.

Coach: He's reachin' in.
Official: Again, no contact no foul, coach.
At this level on the next dead ball you could explain how it would be tough for defenders to get steals without reaching.

JMO

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I think this is a stretch, and I think you continue to misuse the term "myth." Over the back and reach aren't myths. It is just terminology the average basketball person uses to describe general actions they think are illegal. Over the back almost universally applies to rebounding action.

What, do you want fans and coaches to yell "That's an illegal push in the back on the rebound!!" Come on.

Getting high and mighty about terms like these isn't going to change anything, if anything it's going to make you look either out of touch or a little too big for your britches. These kinds of terms aren't going away. The best you can do is learn how to communicate with coaches and players in spite of them.

That's exactly why there are myths. "Over the back" is the terminology used for the myth that reaching over another player's back without making contact is a foul. "Reaching" is the terminology for the myth that reaching across a dribbler's arm without making contact is a foul.

The correct response to "over the back" and "reaching" is they aren't fouls. Using them just promotes the idea that contact isn't a necessary component to a personal foul.