My New #1 Myth

[Adam]

Originally Posted by refiator

With me, it depends on how loud it was. If it's "under his breath" I will likely pass, but speak to him. If it's loud enough for all to hear, no choice..."T".

A quiet "f#ck" that is likely out of personal frustration, and I'm the only one who hears it: I'll remind the player to watch her language.

A quiet "f#ck you," on the other hand.... If it's under her breath, I won't hear it. Conversely, if I hear it, it's not under her breath.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by bainsey

For a few years, I've maintained a personal list of basketball's biggest rules myths. The existence of "over the back" has always topped my list, but I may have something to top it. I'd like some thoughts.

Varsity boys today (not working, I was a spectator): V down 2 points in the closing seconds. Shot is missed, put back is missed, H called for pushing foul, V will shoot two with :01 left. H-22 says F.U. (not sure to whom, some say an official, but I can't confirm that) and earns a T. Clear the lane, we're shooting four.

The first two free throws for V are missed. However, both technical free throws are nailed (different shooter). We got to overtime, where V eventually wins a 65-63 thriller on a buzzer beater.

Of course, some H fans say about the technical, "you don't make that call at that point in the game." Granted, there is significant emotion talking, and perhaps they didn't know what V-22 said, but I still find this to be a very common myth, even when you don't have a horse in the race, so I think it's more than just sour grapes talking. What's more, I find this myth to be a more damaging than most, because it's predicated upon the belief that the officials somehow take away games from the players, as opposed to enforcing the rules and their penalties, as we're obligated.

You don't hear this cry from fans nearly as much in football, when there's a pass interference penalty in the last minute. I could draw parallels to other sports, but the bottom line is this myth seems to exist mostly in basketball. Am I off base with this?

I've been taught that time and score are irrelevant to the enforcement of the rules. I'm curious why so many others think the opposite, when it's expected that way in other sports.

Lot of it stems from "let the players decide the game" mantra. They forget that we call things based on what the players do.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by bainsey

You don't hear this cry from fans nearly as much in football, when there's a pass interference penalty in the last minute. I could draw parallels to other sports, but the bottom line is this myth seems to exist mostly in basketball. Am I off base with this?

Nine years later, and this Buckeye still has to listen to people from Coral Gables complain about a pass interference call that "was late" and "shouldn't be made at that point in the game." So yes, you're off base.

[Nevadaref]

Was listening to the V show on the radio tonight and Bob touched on this point as he was discussing the lack of a goaltending call near the end of the Syracuse/W.VA game.
He said that officials don't decide the games rather the players do when they foul at that time. He also said that the only way to officiate was to work each play from the start to the finish without regard to the time left or the score.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Altor

Nine years later, and this Buckeye still has to listen to people from Coral Gables complain about a pass interference call that "was late" and "shouldn't be made at that point in the game."

Miami fans have more to complain about regarding the contact that took place AFTER the receiver first touched the ball. They don't even need to play the "late flag" card.

Anyway, that's one example from football. I still hear this significantly more in basketball. Maybe it doesn't really matter, though. A myth is a myth, and this one is a big one.

I think Sniper nails it. Some believe that, if an official blows his whistle late in the game, regardless of the reason, he's interjecting himself into the game. We all know better.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bainsey

"You don't make that call at that point in the game." It's predicated upon the belief that the officials somehow take away games from the players, as opposed to enforcing the rules and their penalties, as we're obligated. I've been taught that time and score are irrelevant to the enforcement of the rules. I'm curious why so many others think the opposite, when it's expected that way in other sports.

I had absolutely no problem making this call. No question in my mind. None:

Technical Fouls

[BillyMac]

Officials are on the court to be the only unbiased arbiters of the game. Officials are not concerned with who wins or loses, but only fairness and safety. Everyone else in that gym cares about winning, and therefore cannot look at the game objectively. Players commit fouls and violations; officials view those infractions, judge the action, and then apply the rules of the game to what they had viewed. The rules then determine the penalty.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bainsey

You don't hear this cry from fans nearly as much in football, when there's a pass interference penalty in the last minute. I could draw parallels to other sports, but the bottom line is this myth seems to exist mostly in basketball. Am I off base with this?

Yes. See 2003 Feista Bowl.

[fortmoney]

Having done a lot of 5th/6th grade rec ball this season, I have been dealing with this constantly. "Over the back!"s and "He's reachin' in!"s are rampant. It's quite annoying to have to hold back my remarks and just call the correct game.

More toward your point Bainsey, I had a game yesterday that was close to the wire. B is down 2 and B1 drives the extremely cluttered lane and tries to force up a shot, and my opinion was that he was not fouled and touched the ball last before it went OOB. Coach B is upset, fine, I hand the ball to A and start going down the court. Assistant Coach B jumps off the bench as I am passing and yells YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME and I pop him with a T. I tell him to take a seat and he continues to stand and lowers his tone, begging me not to give him a T (I'm guessing he didn't want the game to be out of reach due to his actions). I didn't say anything but I was thinking to myself, too bad, if you didn't want that for your team, you would have stayed on the bench. A won by 4

[Rich]

Originally Posted by fortmoney

Having done a lot of 5th/6th grade rec ball this season, I have been dealing with this constantly. "Over the back!"s and "He's reachin' in!"s are rampant. It's quite annoying to have to hold back my remarks and just call the

I just don't get why this annoys people. Coaches and players are simply going to use these terms and I'm going to continue to call my game. We aren't going to take those words out of people's vocabularies and it's silly to even try.

[26 Year Gap]

You penalize the OTHER team by not making the call.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I just don't get why this annoys people.

Here's why.

When people say "over the back" and "reaching" fouls, they perpetuate myths that all you have to do is invade someone's personal space to commit a foul. The smarter the fan base is, the easier the job for all of us.

Meanwhile, we can just sit back and say, "Oh well, that's just the way fans/coaches are." I don't believe that. I believe those that are interested in the game would like to know when they've believing in a myth. I've talked to a number of people that weren't aware of many of the rules we've come to learn, and these are people that are genuinely interested.

Do we teach these things during a game? No, that's very seldom the time or the place, especially at the high school level. We have jobs to do. However, I see no harm in getting the word out when fallacies take over facts. To the contrary, I believe they help, even if it takes a lot of small ripple effects along the way.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Here's why.

When people say "over the back" and "reaching" fouls, they perpetuate myths that all you have to do is invade someone's personal space to commit a foul. The smarter the fan base is, the easier the job for all of us.

Meanwhile, we can just sit back and say, "Oh well, that's just the way fans/coaches are." I don't believe that. I believe those that are interested in the game would like to know when they've believing in a myth. I've talked to a number of people that weren't aware of many of the rules we've come to learn, and these are people that are genuinely interested.

Do we teach these things during a game? No, that's very seldom the time or the place, especially at the high school level. We have jobs to do. However, I see no harm in getting the word out when fallacies take over facts. To the contrary, I believe they help, even if it takes a lot of small ripple effects along the way.

I think this is a stretch, and I think you continue to misuse the term "myth." Over the back and reach aren't myths. It is just terminology the average basketball person uses to describe general actions they think are illegal. Over the back almost universally applies to rebounding action.

What, do you want fans and coaches to yell "That's an illegal push in the back on the rebound!!" Come on.

Getting high and mighty about terms like these isn't going to change anything, if anything it's going to make you look either out of touch or a little too big for your britches. These kinds of terms aren't going away. The best you can do is learn how to communicate with coaches and players in spite of them.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by fiasco

What, do you want fans and coaches to yell "That's an illegal push in the back on the rebound!!" Come on.

"Pushing" "Displacement"

When a coach uses one of those terms (or some form thereof), my respect for him/her goes way up.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by fiasco

I think this is a stretch, and I think you continue to misuse the term "myth." Over the back and reach aren't myths. It is just terminology the average basketball person uses to describe general actions they think are illegal. Over the back almost universally applies to rebounding action.

What, do you want fans and coaches to yell "That's an illegal push in the back on the rebound!!" Come on.

Getting high and mighty about terms like these isn't going to change anything, if anything it's going to make you look either out of touch or a little too big for your britches. These kinds of terms aren't going away. The best you can do is learn how to communicate with coaches and players in spite of them.

I wouldn't disagree with this if I hadn't had too many coaches ask for "reach" and "over the back" when there's obviously no contact. That said, I don't blame them. I blame the officials who should know better but still report fouls with this terminology.