Let's play the T-Worthy Game

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cobra

You didn't say that. In response to the question of is it a technical foul if he says your partner is awful you said, "No, but I'm telling coach very sternly to cut the crap out and I'll mention to my partner what was said"

And the 8 vs. 5 isn't a T?!? That's the worst one of them all! The only argument on that one should be is it flagrant or not?

Says who? Flagrant for that? Now that is funny. You just throw out a lot of people because you hear that almost every other game.

Originally Posted by Cobra

In the other ones he is just telling you about how much you or your partner suck; you might be bad but at least you aren't trying to make sure the other team wins. In the 8 vs. 5 comment he is actually calling you, and your 2 partners, cheaters.

It is not too often that they tell you that you are doing a good job. This is chess not checkers man. They are not going to be happy with everything we do, they are after all bias and have an agenda. I am not saying you should not do anything, but if that is all you know how to do is give Ts that is not going to get you very far in my opinion. If you can say something and no one knows you addressed the issue, that is a win. Ts do not solve every issue we have with coaches and players.

Peace

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Says who? Flagrant for that? Now that is funny. You just throw out a lot of people because you hear that almost every other game.

What's funny is that you hear that almost every other game. You must be doing something really wrong out there to have coaches directly accuse you of cheating that often.

And yes, there is a good chance that is flagrant. It is much much worse than just saying that the official is terrible. Imagine there is an assignor who finds out that one of his officials did a terrible job one game. Now imagine the assignor finds out an official was cheating and trying to make sure that one team won.

If an official did a bad job one game he could just need more training or possibly just had a bad game. An official who is cheating is entirely different and much more serious. Likewise a coach accusing you of cheating is entirely different and much more serious than a coach telling you that you are awful.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cobra

What's funny is that you hear that almost every other game. You must be doing something really wrong out there to have coaches directly accuse you of cheating that often.

Or maybe I do not have thin skin? There are many possibilities for why I do what I do and you do what you do. If I am doing something wrong, there are a lot of others that want to do as wrong as I have done. And I am not projecting; they tell me personally how they feel about my place as an official.

Originally Posted by Cobra

And yes, there is a good chance that is flagrant. It is much much worse than just saying that the official is terrible. Imagine there is an assignor who finds out that one of his officials did a terrible job one game. Now imagine the assignor finds out an official was cheating and trying to make sure that one team won.

Coaches think anytime you are not calling everything your way they say you are doing a terrible job. That comes with the territory. I am sorry but that seems like you need to man up and stop worrying about what a coach says to or about you.

Originally Posted by Cobra

If an official did a bad job one game he could just need more training or possibly just had a bad game. An official who is cheating is entirely different and much more serious. Likewise a coach accusing you of cheating is entirely different and much more serious than a coach telling you that you are awful.

My point to you is I have heard worse. Based on what your standard is if anytime someone is critical of a call they are questioning your ability or calling you a cheater. Now that is your right to feel that way and if any criticism bothers you then T up everyone for all I care. I am glad that works for you if you like it I love it. Many coaches and not all think that if they have displeasure with a call they will voice some opinion about those calls, be my guest if that is your only way to handle things without any other intervention. But I did not get to where I am today by T'ing up everyone that said something bad to me. Because if you think that is personal to me, then you have not watched a lot of basketball at all levels. Better yet you have not talked to officials at many levels either. All officials deal with coaches saying the same things you claim should be a flagrant foul. And I know I have been around than many of those coaches and will continue to be around longer than many of them. I have learned to get coaches to stop even talking to me or my crew and no one knew I said a thing or addressed an issue. Also when you give out Ts all the time people start to think you are the problem not the coach right or wrong.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

I agree with most that almost all of these require context and are not immediate T's ... but could be.

However, put me in the camp of ALWAYS T'ing up the 8v5 comment. I don't think it's just me either - saying (or implying) the officials are intentionally calling against 1 team is equivalent to saying they are cheating. This is right up there with, "How much are they paying you for these calls?" or "Gee ref, got money on this game?"

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I agree with most that almost all of these require context and are not immediate T's ... but could be.

However, put me in the camp of ALWAYS T'ing up the 8v5 comment. I don't think it's just me either - saying (or implying) the officials are intentionally calling against 1 team is equivalent to saying they are cheating. This is right up there with, "How much are they paying you for these calls?" or "Gee ref, got money on this game?"

Agreed. I'm not sure I can think of a scenario where the 8/5 comment doesn't bring a quick T, but it's possible. It's not the same as referring to the foul count, IMO.

[deecee]

First T of the year yesterday. Player asked me if I was crazy.

[Brick43]

In reading all the opinions on this thread I have come to the conclusion that I either have thick skin or haven't worked enough games. (Disclaimer I'm all JV, AAU and rec at this point). The only T's I can remember issuing are for F bombs loud enough for the arena to hear. And those were by players. I have had coaches make comments that require my attention but nothing that has made me "whack" them for it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed. I'm not sure I can think of a scenario where the 8/5 comment doesn't bring a quick T, but it's possible. It's not the same as referring to the foul count, IMO.

When the coach is right?

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Coaches think anytime you are not calling everything your way they say you are doing a terrible job. That comes with the territory. I am sorry but that seems like you need to man up and stop worrying about what a coach says to or about you.

A coach saying that you are doing a terrible job is a technical foul. I feel very sorry for whoever works with you. You need to stop sucking up to the coaches and call some technical fouls.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Cobra

A coach saying that you are doing a terrible job is a technical foul. I feel very sorry for whoever works with you. You need to stop sucking up to the coaches and call some technical fouls.

You missed the because that is not what Rut is saying at all. I also doubt he sucks up to coaches.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cobra

A coach saying that you are doing a terrible job is a technical foul. I feel very sorry for whoever works with you. You need to stop sucking up to the coaches and call some technical fouls.

Sucking up to coaches for what?

Let me ask you this, how many Ts are acceptable to you. After all you are the expert on this topic.

Grow some skin on your back and stop worrying about what a coach says to you.

Peace

[tref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sucking up to coaches for what?

What, you mean to tell me the coaches dont assign games in the Land of Lincoln??

Some guys...

[JRutledge]

Yes we have a novel idea here in the Land of Lincoln. We actually have these people you call "assignors" and they give games. These "assignors" are often current officials that know officiating on some level and give games based on who they like (Many are State Final or college officials). And in many cases they could give a darn what a coach thinks and will still use officials on their staff. Also there are these things called Holiday Tournaments and Post season that even if a coach does not like you, there is not "scratch" list and you will get the very same coach that tried to ban you in conference play. It works out quite well and coaches have absolutely no say in where I work or do not work. Heck they certainly cannot control who you see in a non-conference game at all, so it is not unusual to see a coach on the road.



Peace

[berserkBBK]

Some people have a quick trigger when it comes to giving a "T" to a coach. I have always been a guy to try to talk to someone first. Most of these cases are HTBT moments and also depends on who you are and who the coach is.

My opinion is that if you are going to stick a coach then make sure it is consistent throughout the season (maybe even career). The only thing I have against trying to be the quickest one to the T, is that you are looked at as unapproachable by coaches. We all have made a slip and sometimes it takes a coach a warning and a look to make him realize he said something we do not like. If he really wants the "T" he'll say it again and get his present.

I've learned that word travels fast, both in the officiating world and coaching world. People will learn that you have a quick trigger and they will try to avoid you. I'm not out here to make enemies with the coaches and that's what I think this tactic will bring.

HOWEVER... We all can name good/great officials that work some of the best ball that have quick triggers. It is all a part of your personality and style.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Let me ask you this, how many Ts are acceptable to you. After all you are the expert on this topic.

I really don't understand the question as there is no context given whatsoever....acceptable in a game? In 10 games? In one quarter? What actions are causing you to call the fouls?

But I will say that there is no correct answer to any of them. You could handle every situation perfectly and go 10 games without a technical foul. Then something comes up, which you also handle perfectly, and you call 10 technical fouls in a quarter.

I know you say that there are no absolutes but that isn't how it should be. Some things such as personal insults ("you suck at officiating basektball") as well as accusing the officials of cheating ("you are making those calls because you are trying to help the other team win") are always a technical foul.

Originally Posted by fiasco

I find it absurd that he thinks an official who determines that "call the damn foul" is being overly sensitive by calling a T in that situation, as if it has anything to do with an officials sensitivity. It doesn't.

Do you call technical fouls if someone yells "damn"? Saying "call the damn foul" really isn't any different.