Let's play the T-Worthy Game

mbyron

Here's another one for the list (happened to me last Friday):

"You should go back to JV."

JRutledge

Cobra wrote
You let him tell you how terrible you are and you are ok with that?

You let him tell you how terrible your partner is and you are ok with that?

You let him accuse you and both of your partners of cheating and you are ok with that as long as it is said softly?

😮 You really need to stop letting guys walk all over you.

First of all do not overreact. Coaches tell us how terrible we are all the time and a lot of officials do nothing. Let us not act like this does not take place or that you would be surprised if a T is not given. Everything has a context and a tone to it. When a coach gives the foul count they are questioning your integrity and I rarely see a T given for that immediately. I have had coaches make suggestions about the make-up of the crew or where they think we live and not gotten a T.

I seriously doubt that allowing these have anything to do with someone walking all over anyone. If anything I would wonder why you were so thinned skinned if every time someone said something to you negative you were giving a T. That could also be a wrong evaluation as well. We all do not have the same tolerance level for these things, which is why some are considered good at GM issues and others are not. You cannot pull a comment out of the sky and always how the situation should be handled.

Peace

APG

Cobra wrote
You let him tell you how terrible you are and you are ok with that?

You let him tell you how terrible your partner is and you are ok with that?

You let him accuse you and both of your partners of cheating and you are ok with that as long as it is said softly?

😮 You really need to stop letting guys walk all over you.

🙄

I'm not going to just let a coach do anything. If I have an opportunity to address the behavior, then I'll try to. Sometimes a coach doesn't allow us to show him the line he's about to cross so an immediate whack is warranted. But the OP asked, in of itself, if the statements above would warrant an immediate T. I believe in very few "automatic" T's (I sound like JRut here 😃)

And as a matter of fact, I all but said the 8v5 would be a T

Welpe

tref wrote
Some of us go to the T immediately, others use the tool when all else fails.

A false dichotomy IMO. I'm all for giving a coach plenty of rope but there are some things that will stretch that rope out a lot quicker. My big one is insulting my integrity. It's as close to an automatic T as I have and I would not consider myself as unable to handle my business or be a weak communicator. I simply don't stand for it.

SE Minnestoa Re

My old partner had this one:

Coach--"Call Something!"

Partner--T

stratref

fiasco wrote
"You have no clue what you're doing out there, do you?"
This is questioning my integrity/ability and will get a "T" every time

"Seriously, that call was atrocious."
Not a fan of the comment, but the coach's problem is with the call not me, I may tell him to knock it off but it's not an automatic "T"

"Do you have a problem with me?"
I'm just ignoring this 100%, nothing good can come from the conversation, but he hasn't crossed a line yet.

"What is your problem?"
Same as above.

"You're doing a great job, but your partner is awful."
This is an easy "T", he is trying to get between you and your partner, this is not acceptable under any circumstances.

"It's tough playing 8 on 5."
"T" minimum, possible ejection, this is a direct accusation of cheating, saying the baseball equivalent of "11 on 9" will get you run 100% of the time.

"Blow your whistle for crying out loud!"
This is probably nothing, however I may be inclined to say "Sure coach, here is your 'T' as requested" but only if I have herd enough from the coach

If find that if I am going to throw a coach out in baseball I should at least be giving them a "T" in basketball. In baseball there are some very well defined boundaries, mainly saying you can ask a legitimate question but attacking integrity is an automatic ejection.

Jasper

bainsey

Definite Ts on 1, 6, and 7.

Probable on 5.

Doubtful on 2, 3, 4. Other circumstances may apply.

KJUmp

stratref wrote
If find that if I am going to throw a coach out in baseball I should at least be giving them a "T" in basketball. In baseball there are some very well defined boundaries, mainly saying you can ask a legitimate question but attacking integrity is an automatic ejection.

Jasper

Being a longtime umpire...I'm on the same page as Statref.

BillyMac

"You have no clue what you're doing out there, do you?"
Technical foul. He made it personal.

"Seriously, that call was atrocious."
Maybe. One of those "had to be there" situations.

"Do you have a problem with me?"
Ignore.

"What is your problem?"
Ignore.

"You're doing a great job, but your partner is awful."
Technical Foul. He made it personal.

"It's tough playing 8 on 5."
Technical foul. Accusing officials of cheating, and questioning officials' integrity.

"Blow your whistle for crying out loud!"
Maybe. One of those "had to be there" situations.

Cobra

AllPurposeGamer wrote
And as a matter of fact, I all but said the 8v5 would be a T

You didn't say that. In response to the question of is it a technical foul if he says your partner is awful you said, "No, but I'm telling coach very sternly to cut the crap out and I'll mention to my partner what was said"

And the 8 vs. 5 isn't a T?!? That's the worst one of them all! The only argument on that one should be is it flagrant or not? In the other ones he is just telling you about how much you or your partner suck; you might be bad but at least you aren't trying to make sure the other team wins. In the 8 vs. 5 comment he is actually calling you, and your 2 partners, cheaters.

Terrapins Fan

Who here has NEVER called a "T"?

I have worked with about 6 guys who NEVER call a "T" no matter what.

I had a partner see a pre game dunk and said "did you see that?" I said "What?" He said, " That kid just dunked" I asked, "are we starting the game with a "T"?" He said, "No I am just going to tell him not to do it again."

They are out there, I got about 3 or 4 T's out of the first batch of comments.

JRutledge

Cobra wrote
You didn't say that. In response to the question of is it a technical foul if he says your partner is awful you said, "No, but I'm telling coach very sternly to cut the crap out and I'll mention to my partner what was said"

And the 8 vs. 5 isn't a T?!? That's the worst one of them all! The only argument on that one should be is it flagrant or not?

Says who? Flagrant for that? Now that is funny. You just throw out a lot of people because you hear that almost every other game.

Cobra wrote
In the other ones he is just telling you about how much you or your partner suck; you might be bad but at least you aren't trying to make sure the other team wins. In the 8 vs. 5 comment he is actually calling you, and your 2 partners, cheaters.

It is not too often that they tell you that you are doing a good job. This is chess not checkers man. They are not going to be happy with everything we do, they are after all bias and have an agenda. I am not saying you should not do anything, but if that is all you know how to do is give Ts that is not going to get you very far in my opinion. If you can say something and no one knows you addressed the issue, that is a win. Ts do not solve every issue we have with coaches and players.

Peace

zm1283

BillyMac wrote
"You have no clue what you're doing out there, do you?"
Technical foul. He made it personal. Yep, T from me here.

"Seriously, that call was atrocious."
Maybe. One of those "had to be there" situations. Yeah, if this was early in the game or the first thing he had said, it probably gets ignored.

"Do you have a problem with me?"
Ignore. Yep

"What is your problem?"
Ignore. Yep

"You're doing a great job, but your partner is awful."
Technical Foul. He made it personal. Whack immediately.

"It's tough playing 8 on 5."
Technical foul. Accusing officials of cheating, and questioning officials' integrity. Whack immediately.

"Blow your whistle for crying out loud!"
Maybe. One of those "had to be there" situations. Agree again, although I gave a coach a T a few years ago for this when he screamed it at me as I was running from Trail to Lead away from his bench.

I agree with Billy and I added my comments.

BBUMP99

fiasco wrote
"Blow your whistle for crying out loud!"

I had that line used on me last week.

Actually, to be accurate, it was "Will you please blow your whistle? For anything?!?! Just make A CALL!!"

I honored her request. I blew my whistle I called a foul. A technical foul.

ga314ref

billymac wrote
"you have no clue what you're doing out there, do you?"
technical foul. He made it personal.

"seriously, that call was atrocious."
maybe. One of those "had to be there" situations.

"do you have a problem with me?"
ignore.

"what is your problem?"
ignore.

"you're doing a great job, but your partner is awful."
technical foul. He made it personal.

"it's tough playing 8 on 5."
technical foul. Accusing officials of cheating, and questioning officials' integrity.

"blow your whistle for crying out loud!"
maybe. One of those "had to be there" situations.

Ignats75

I've always maintained that the only absolutes with regards to Teeing up coaches are comments that are profane or question our integrity. That being said, nothing good can happen to a coach if he starts his speech with the word "you".

bainsey

Ignats75 wrote
I've always maintained that the only absolutes with regards to Teeing up coaches are comments that are profane or question our integrity.

I would add imperative sentences to the list, which is why I have a T on the last item.

Cobra

JRutledge wrote
Says who? Flagrant for that? Now that is funny. You just throw out a lot of people because you hear that almost every other game.

What's funny is that you hear that almost every other game. You must be doing something really wrong out there to have coaches directly accuse you of cheating that often.

And yes, there is a good chance that is flagrant. It is much much worse than just saying that the official is terrible. Imagine there is an assignor who finds out that one of his officials did a terrible job one game. Now imagine the assignor finds out an official was cheating and trying to make sure that one team won.

If an official did a bad job one game he could just need more training or possibly just had a bad game. An official who is cheating is entirely different and much more serious. Likewise a coach accusing you of cheating is entirely different and much more serious than a coach telling you that you are awful.

JRutledge

Cobra wrote
What's funny is that you hear that almost every other game. You must be doing something really wrong out there to have coaches directly accuse you of cheating that often.

Or maybe I do not have thin skin? There are many possibilities for why I do what I do and you do what you do. If I am doing something wrong, there are a lot of others that want to do as wrong as I have done. And I am not projecting; they tell me personally how they feel about my place as an official.

Cobra wrote
And yes, there is a good chance that is flagrant. It is much much worse than just saying that the official is terrible. Imagine there is an assignor who finds out that one of his officials did a terrible job one game. Now imagine the assignor finds out an official was cheating and trying to make sure that one team won.

Coaches think anytime you are not calling everything your way they say you are doing a terrible job. That comes with the territory. I am sorry but that seems like you need to man up and stop worrying about what a coach says to or about you.

Cobra wrote
If an official did a bad job one game he could just need more training or possibly just had a bad game. An official who is cheating is entirely different and much more serious. Likewise a coach accusing you of cheating is entirely different and much more serious than a coach telling you that you are awful.

My point to you is I have heard worse. Based on what your standard is if anytime someone is critical of a call they are questioning your ability or calling you a cheater. Now that is your right to feel that way and if any criticism bothers you then T up everyone for all I care. I am glad that works for you if you like it I love it. Many coaches and not all think that if they have displeasure with a call they will voice some opinion about those calls, be my guest if that is your only way to handle things without any other intervention. But I did not get to where I am today by T'ing up everyone that said something bad to me. Because if you think that is personal to me, then you have not watched a lot of basketball at all levels. Better yet you have not talked to officials at many levels either. All officials deal with coaches saying the same things you claim should be a flagrant foul. And I know I have been around than many of those coaches and will continue to be around longer than many of them. I have learned to get coaches to stop even talking to me or my crew and no one knew I said a thing or addressed an issue. Also when you give out Ts all the time people start to think you are the problem not the coach right or wrong.

Peace

MD Longhorn

I agree with most that almost all of these require context and are not immediate T's ... but could be.

However, put me in the camp of ALWAYS T'ing up the 8v5 comment. I don't think it's just me either - saying (or implying) the officials are intentionally calling against 1 team is equivalent to saying they are cheating. This is right up there with, "How much are they paying you for these calls?" or "Gee ref, got money on this game?"

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