Just a Word of Caution...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'm pretty easy to spot. The stripes are a dead giveaway. I actually don't own a bag.

This says a lot. I will leave it at that.

Peace

[zm1283]

As usual, JRut applies his standards to everyone else and they are automatically wrong if they do anything differently than he does. Then he backtracks and tries to talk his way out of it when Snaqwells quotes him.

In this area, there is one school district that plays their middle school games at 3:00. Most, if not all officials go to these games already dressed. The assignor has made it clear that this is acceptable, and as long as you show up and work the game, everything is fine. These schools are just glad to have two officials show up. They, nor the parents (Influential or not) watching in the stands care about where or how the officials got dressed.

For every other MS game and certainly for every HS game, locker rooms are provided.

Edit: And by the way, I do agree with the part in the OP about schools complaining. If they refuse to provide somewhere to change, they can't complain about us dressing outside. With that said, even the middle schools I speak of above that start their games at 3:00 would find somewhere for us to dress if we wanted.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Edit: And by the way, I do agree with the part in the OP about schools complaining. If they refuse to provide somewhere to change, they can't complain about us dressing outside. With that said, even the middle schools I speak of above that start their games at 3:00 would find somewhere for us to dress if we wanted.

I've yet to see a school that doesn't at least have a public restroom. It might not be ideal, but at least it is not outside where you can get a sunburn.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've yet to see a school that doesn't at least have a public restroom. It might not be ideal, but at least it is not outside where you can get a sunburn.

I've yet to see a public school that doesn't have separate bathrooms for its faculty and staff.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I've yet to see a public school that doesn't have separate bathrooms for its faculty and staff.

True, but those may or may not be in the area of the school that has been opened for the game. They may be in an entirely different area that is inaccessible....lots of youth game organizers rent just the gym and the nearby hallways/access, not the entire school building and the rest may or may not be unlocked.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

True, but those may or may not be in the area of the school that has been opened for the game. They may be in an entirely different area that is inaccessible....lots of youth game organizers rent just the gym and the nearby hallways/access, not the entire school building and the rest may or may not be unlocked.

Unless I missed something this was not a "youth game" from the standpoint of some organization running the game. This was a middle school game which to me always means that game is being played under the jurisdiction of the school or school district and they are playing at the school or a building they control. My comments about professionalism have nothing to do with a travel league or some league that is not a school-sanctioned event. But I am sure every school has some facilities that faculty can go where the students cannot, especially in this day and age. And if that is not the case, then that should be known to those going to work games.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Unless I missed something this was not a "youth game" from the standpoint of some organization running the game. This was a middle school game which to me always means that game is being played under the jurisdiction of the school or school district and they are playing at the school or a building they control. My comments about professionalism have nothing to do with a travel league or some league that is not a school-sanctioned event. But I am sure every school has some facilities that faculty can go where the students cannot, especially in this day and age. And if that is not the case, then that should be known to those going to work games.

Peace

MS games = youth games.

In fact, in Oregon, I don't think there are any MS that sponsor teams at all. The MS's got out of that business a LONG time ago. There are often independent operations that conduct business in connection with a school but the connection is very loose.

[APG]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Edit: And by the way, I do agree with the part in the OP about schools complaining. If they refuse to provide somewhere to change, they can't complain about us dressing outside. With that said, even the middle schools I speak of above that start their games at 3:00 would find somewhere for us to dress if we wanted.

If someone has enough time to dress in the parking lot, I would think they would have enough time to find some place inside to dress. I'd ask the head coach where this is...most of the time, it's a closed off locker room for officials, sometimes a room, coach's office...sometimes it's been just a restroom, but any of those places are better than in the parking lot. Probably one of the reasons I'd never work baseball lol

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

If someone has enough time to dress in the parking lot, I would think they would have enough time to find some place inside to dress. I'd ask the head coach where this is...most of the time, it's a closed off locker room for officials, sometimes a room, coach's office...sometimes it's been just a restroom, but any of those places are better than in the parking lot. Probably one of the reasons I'd never work baseball lol

In baseball we still have to be cognizant of who is around, which is why I always am prepared with undergarments so that I am not exposed. This is why often you park in a relative private place away from everyone and do not get completely naked. And I would never get dressed in a public restroom because all it takes is some kid to walk in and claim you did something inappropriate. Then again in baseball there is no locker room for anyone unless you are working the State Finals.

I was involved in a basketball game where a very tall official ran into cheerleader while rotating in the lead position and a parent tried to press charges on that official for simply doing his job. And the police wanted to talk to him immediately after the game and it took weeks to get this situation resolved so that charges were dropped and nothing ultimately took place from this. I do not know about everyone here, but if that can happen directly on the court, what do you think might happen in a bathroom where it is your word against someone else's word as to what you did and your intentions? And that issue was all based on where cheerleaders were located on the court and the GM not taking charge in a situation where he should have taken full responsibility to secure the court and the area around the court.

I do not know about anyone else, if you are accused of some kind of sexual crime here, you lose your license until the issue is completely resolved.

Peace

[k_st8r]

One issue not addressed, most discussions are refrencing HS ball... HS ball is maybe 15-20% of the ball I do.... 2cnd grade through varsity, through traveling AAU ball (better than varsity), boys /girls, adult rec, tourneys, etc..

Have yet to do a HS game without a designated place for officials. All others a crap shoot or more like "bank on no place being available". Professionalism is based on the person doing the "judging". ie old school, new school what is professional to some isn't for others. I don't play assignors politics... I get games because I am a good ref that can handle any situation. when I step on the court it is business. what I do or how I am dressed is nobody's business before or after.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by k_st8r

Have yet to do a HS game without a designated place for officials. All others a crap shoot or more like "bank on no place being available". Professionalism is based on the person doing the "judging". ie old school, new school what is professional to some isn't for others. I don't play assignors politics... I get games because I am a good ref that can handle any situation. when I step on the court it is business. what I do or how I am dressed is nobody's business before or after.

Not sure it is nobody's business. Whether we like it or not this is still a business and someone is giving us games based on how we will make them look. Now you may not share the standard that is expected, but it still can and will be there whether you approve or not.

On the football board right now there is thread about a coin toss and a video linked to that thread. One of the main things that people are talking about is how the kid is dressed (hat direction) at the coin flip. It might not be there business to judge, but people will and it can affect what complaints they get. Not everything we do in life is judged on pure substance, we are judged on the packaging too.

Peace

[k_st8r]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not sure it is nobody's business. Whether we like it or not this is still a business and someone is giving us games based on how we will make them look. Now you may not share the standard that is expected, but it still can and will be there whether you approve or not.

On the football board right now there is thread about a coin toss and a video linked to that thread. One of the main things that people are talking about is how the kid is dressed (hat direction) at the coin flip. It might not be there business to judge, but people will and it can affect what complaints they get. Not everything we do in life is judged on pure substance, we are judged on the packaging too.

Peace

I agree...emphasis on your coin flip scenario is ON THE FIELD/COURT. I don't think we disagree. there is acceptable and unacceptable, then there are the actual levels of standard.. ie appearance of uniform, crispness of mechanics etc... Here in KS/MO, we have a pretty high level IMO.. again I reiterate, "when I step on the court/field(since this is an officials blog, -when my responsibilities start through finish), it is all business."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zm1283

As usual, JRut applies his standards to everyone else and they are automatically wrong if they do anything differently than he does. Then he backtracks and tries to talk his way out of it when Snaqwells quotes him.

You should NEVER change clothes outside of a restroom or locker room while on school property. What was witnessed would be enough to get a person charged with indecent exposure...or worse. Given some individuals' propensity for overreaction, it would not be surprising to see someone given lifetime placement on the sex offender registry.

I guess this statement came directly from me? Oh, if you cannot read correctly, this was in the email that was referenced in very first post of this thread from an assignor not in my area.

Originally Posted by zm1283

Edit: And by the way, I do agree with the part in the OP about schools complaining. If they refuse to provide somewhere to change, they can't complain about us dressing outside. With that said, even the middle schools I speak of above that start their games at 3:00 would find somewhere for us to dress if we wanted.

Hmmmmmmmm, interesting. Is that not pretty much the exact statement I made previously?

I better not ever hear you tell others what to they should do, because after all that would be your standards right?

Peace

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I guess this statement came directly from me? Oh, if you cannot read correctly, this was in the email that was referenced in very first post of this thread from an assignor not in my area.



Hmmmmmmmm, interesting. Is that not pretty much the exact statement I made previously?

I better not ever hear you tell others what to they should do, because after all that would be your standards right?

Peace

I wasn't directing that part at you. It was just a general statement.

The gist of the thread was you getting on your high horse about middle school games and how anyone who goes dressed is unprofessional, when in reality there are assignors who are fine with officials going to afternoon MS games dressed.

We all know you wouldn't work MS games, and especially MS games where you might have to go dressed. They are well beneath you, we get it.

Why is it that every time a prolonged argument happens on this board, you are involved?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I wasn't directing that part at you. It was just a general statement.

The gist of the thread was you getting on your high horse about middle school games and how anyone who goes dressed is unprofessional, when in reality there are assignors who are fine with officials going to afternoon MS games dressed.

I did? I guess you did not read the OP or the comments about being accused of being a sex offender for what officials were doing in the parking lot. And then I guess you did not read the many other posts of people saying what they wear or would wear to games in this thread and never having worked a game at that level where they did not have a locker room provided by the school. Actually since I have been here a lot longer than you have, I think I know probably a little more of what is standard across the country. Most people's standards do not change with MS games of any kind. Actually most take exception if you treat these games lesser than a HS game in any way. How about this, stick around a little while and you might notice some things.

Originally Posted by zm1283

We all know you wouldn't work MS games, and especially MS games where you might have to go dressed. They are well beneath you, we get it.

How do you explain I worked a IESA (Illinois Elementary School Association) Regional and IESA Sectional about a year ago on back to back weekends? And I drove an hour for one of those games and about 30 good minutes to the other in rural Illinois. Wanna know what I wore to the game? I wore the very same thing I wear going to a HS games. Wanna know what my partner wore, the very same thing he wears to a HS game (he was one of my HS partners). And if you think it was jeans and a T-shirt, you would be wrong. I wore a nice shirt with a collar and dress pants and dress shoes. I shined my officiating shoes and wore the same jacket on the floor that I do when working any other HS game. We got to those games about an hour before tip off. But hey, I guess that is what you do when a game is beneath you right? Actually it is kind of hard to work any MS game when you teach a class, run an association meeting and work another sport both HS and college all during the fall. Also some of us get other levels of games than what is at the HS game. I do not know about you, but I am not turning down games that not only make more money or are closer to my house to work a MS game. But hey, you know right?

Originally Posted by zm1283

Why is it that every time a prolonged argument happens on this board, you are involved?

Really? I will have to keep that in mind the next time I read about 10 pages of debates over if a backcourt violation or a debate over tax returns I guess I must have been involved in those too? Actually if you were paying any damn attention you might see I hardly post in most topics as they have been done before multiple times.

Peace