Just a Word of Caution...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by IowaMike

So if you work JH games you're unprofessional? I work as many varsity games as I care to and I still work a small number of JH games. Why? Because they usually play on nights when varsity games aren't being played, they're easy, close to home, I'm home in time for dinner, and I get an opportunity to work with newer, less experienced officials and help them get better. Nobody around here cares if an official comes dressed to a JH game; they're just glad a competent official was willing to do it.

The reason you do not go to a game in a uniform, is the people that see you come in the court in your cloths think two things. They think you are coming from a game or you are about to go to another when you leave. Not everyone that goes and watches a game is knows all the situations in which you took the game and the first impression you give them is the one might make more decisions about you. I know officials that could not work other levels because of the professionalism they displayed when someone of significant saw them. At a JH or Middle school game, someone's kids are playing and if the right person's kids are playing or grandchildren, they might not give you a shot if they think you are not professional.

Just because everyone else does it is not a good excuse IMO. They better give me a room somewhere or I am not working. This is a choice.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The reason you do not go to a game in a uniform, is the people that see you come in the court in your cloths think two things. They think you are coming from a game or you are about to go to another when you leave. Not everyone that goes and watches a game is knows all the situations in which you took the game and the first impression you give them is the one might make more decisions about you. I know officials that could not work other levels because of the professionalism they displayed when someone of significant saw them. At a JH or Middle school game, someone's kids are playing and if the right person's kids are playing or grandchildren, they might not give you a shot if they think you are not professional.

Just because everyone else does it is not a good excuse IMO. They better give me a room somewhere or I am not working. This is a choice.

Peace

And as always, check local listings.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And as always, check local listings.

Agreed...I can't think of anyone around these parts that DON'T go to a middle school game already dressed in their uniform. In twenty + years of officiating I've NEVER seen anyone come to a middle school and ask for a changing room. Heck, our assignor is just glad to have experienced officials willing to do the games. I do, however, have my "middle school" ref shoes...usually last years H.S. model...and even wear them into the gym from outside. gasp!

...now H.S. games are a whole different story.

Business casual...shower after game!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And as always, check local listings.

You can have personal standards that do not apply to everyone. Just because there might be people in my area that show up wearing jeans, does not mean we have to do the same.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The reason you do not go to a game in a uniform, is the people that see you come in the court in your cloths think two things. They think you are coming from a game or you are about to go to another when you leave.

I think I speak for us all when I say:

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I think I speak for us all when I say:

I really do not care who you speak for as you noticed I never said people should do everything others do. Successful people do what unsuccessful people are unwilling to do. You ultimately represent yourself when you work games and your professionalism, not all of us.

Peace

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Agreed...I can't think of anyone around these parts that DON'T go to a middle school game already dressed in their uniform. In twenty + years of officiating I've NEVER seen anyone come to a middle school and ask for a changing room. Heck, our assignor is just glad to have experienced officials willing to do the games. I do, however, have my "middle school" ref shoes...usually last years H.S. model...and even wear them into the gym from outside. gasp!

...now H.S. games are a whole different story.

Business casual...shower after game!

Like I originally posted earlier (then deleted), if doing JH games here, if the game is played at the HS you have the option of the official's locker room, at least for the next year or two. At the elementary school there are staff/adult restrooms nearby that could be used for changing.

It's my understanding looking at the JH schedule, that a few of the games will be played at the high schools, so hopefully the AD (or school representative) gives the option of using the official's locker room.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They think you are coming from a game or you are about to go to another when you leave.

Why would they think this, unless you are obviously sweaty when you arrive?
And what if they did think this? It's unprofessional to work two places in one day? I have done this a few times, not lately. I assumed most of us had.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You can have personal standards that do not apply to everyone. Just because there might be people in my area that show up wearing jeans, does not mean we have to do the same.

Peace

I'm not talking about personal standards; this statement essentially sums up the part to which I was responding:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They better give me a room somewhere or I am not working. This is a choice.

There are some areas where if an official makes this "choice," he will be labeled high maintenance and a prima donna (sp?). Some places, you just show up and work if you want to move beyond that level.

I've worked in such an area. I eventually stopped working ms games, but it was because they paid $12.50 per game and it wasn't worth getting off work early to work three hours on a tartan floor for that rate. I just wore separate shoes, set my bag behind the scorer, and took care of the game.

Here, I'll be doing ms games for the first time in five years (schedule change), and I don't yet know how the dressing room situation looks. I imagine its closer to the high schools' situation (there's always a coach's office at least), but if it's not, I won't be doing myself any favors by taking a principled stand on this issue.

My point was, your standards may work well for you, and there are some issues where I think every official could benefit by performing and appearing above standard. For example, if the other officials at your level and shining their shoes, do it anyway. If the other officials at a level aren't all clean shaven, do it anyway. If they're all showing up in jeans or sweats; show up in business casual and stand out.

But refusing to work because you don't get a dressing room won't work for guys wanting to move up. It will only work for those who have already moved up and don't want to get stuck doing AAU and YMCA.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Why would they think this, unless you are obviously sweaty when you arrive?

Coaches, players and fans do not care what you did or about to do. They only care about their game. If you look like their game is not important, they might anaylze things you did and claim you were either tired or that you were trying to get out of there to work another game. Which is the main reason I get dressed at the school and leave in clothes other than what I officiated in.

Originally Posted by just another ref

And what if they did think this? It's unprofessional to work two places in one day? I have done this a few times, not lately. I assumed most of us had.

Obviously you missed the point. Of course we all do this, but they also know people that will not call fouls, will not go through procedures and just take "their" game off because they have somewhere else to go or they are tired. Just like I do not talk about where I was last night with coaches or players, I am not going to tell them where I am about to go. And in some places, levels or conferences you cannot work a game before their game or you might be fired. That does not just apply to my area for the record.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

There are some areas where if an official makes this "choice," he will be labeled high maintenance and a prima donna (sp?). Some places, you just show up and work if you want to move beyond that level.

I've worked in such an area. I eventually stopped working ms games, but it was because they paid $12.50 per game and it wasn't worth getting off work early to work three hours on a tartan floor for that rate. I just wore separate shoes, set my bag behind the scorer, and took care of the game.

I would never work for $12.50 a game now and many people I know would not dare assign anyone for that amount. If I found out that was the pay I would stay home or never work that league again for that pay. I just had this conversation with an assignor last Sunday that said he would not dare assign a tournament/league for that $17 and advised his officials if they knew any better they would not accept that kind of fee. And his comment to the person that wanted him to assign officials to a particular tournament was, “I do not have $17 referees to assign games to.” And he was not saying he would not assign someone if they worked for that amount in the future, just saying we are worth more and he would suggest you not lower your value when you consider all the other people that are involved in getting paid for these tournaments and leagues. I do not know any JH games that are assigned for less than $30 (and that would be low) during the regular season. Actually in many cases here they have to pay almost more than a HS game just to get guys to consider working that level. I am not talking about summer league, running clock games either before you start talking about that angle of this situation.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Here, I'll be doing ms games for the first time in five years (schedule change), and I don't yet know how the dressing room situation looks. I imagine its closer to the high schools' situation (there's always a coach's office at least), but if it's not, I won't be doing myself any favors by taking a principled stand on this issue.

You have to take a stand to get dressed? First of all I would not show up in my uniform or any part of my outside uniform on, so you better have some place to get dressed unless you do not mind me getting dressed in front of everyone. So they would have to provide some place for me if they do not want to have such a report complaining about how and where I get dressed.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

My point was, your standards may work well for you, and there are some issues where I think every official could benefit by performing and appearing above standard. For example, if the other officials at your level and shining their shoes, do it anyway. If the other officials at a level aren't all clean shaven, do it anyway. If they're all showing up in jeans or sweats; show up in business casual and stand out.

Let us keep a couple of things in mind. This thread started about a bunch of officials that were getting dressed in the parking lot and in places that might were by the schools considered inappropriate. The law is not going to care why you are naked; they are just going to charge you with a possible crime, ticket or violation of some local ordinance regardless of the reason why. And all any of us need is the right kid, parent or school administrator to say we did something sexually inappropriate and what do you think will happen to us when that charge is made? So either they find us a place to get dressed as everyone is not coming from home or a place where they can just have their uniform on all day, you need a place to put your stuff so you are not exposed to everyone and have some privacy, even if for no other reason to have a pre-game and a place to talk about officiating without being overheard or things you say being taken out of context. This is really more than about getting dressed, this is about the things we do are much more scrutinized then the average public.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

But refusing to work because you don't get a dressing room won't work for guys wanting to move up. It will only work for those who have already moved up and don't want to get stuck doing AAU and YMCA.

I am an independent contractor, I can work where and under whatever circumstances I wish. I do it all the time. It is clear to me that when I read this board many of you are not in that situation. You have no rights to refuse games or to decide where you want to work and when. I do and many other places do as well and I would not work leagues that expected me to be in full uniform but would not give us a locker room, coaches office or somewhere private to keep our stuff or pretty much guarantee that some young girl is authorized to walk in on a bunch of grown men that have no clothes on (this happen to me with other officials and I can tell you it did not go over very well with the assignor). If you want to be an employee and they are not paying your taxes or workmans comp, be my guest.

Peace

[Adam]

I was't clear. I'm an indepedent contractor, and I can turn down any games I want to. That said, our assigning system is different here than yours. My metro area high school games all have the same assigner (from 1A to 5A), and the middle schools have three assigners who are all tight with the hs assigner. It's a visibility thing.

In the old area, I worked one season of ms ball at that rate; my first season in town. One JV game paid the same as three ms games, not worth it. I didn't make a big deal, I just didn't make myself available to the ms assigner. I figured the only way it would change was if guys like me refused to work.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I was't clear. I'm an indepedent contractor, and I can turn down any games I want to. That said, our assigning system is different here than yours. My metro area high school games all have the same assigner (from 1A to 5A), and the middle schools have three assigners who are all tight with the hs assigner. It's a visibility thing.

What does that have to do with you showing up to a game in uniform? I do not understand what that has to do with the assignor unless the assignor says that is the standard. And I have not heard anything that suggests anything different than what I have said originally.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

In the old area, I worked one season of ms ball at that rate; my first season in town. One JV game paid the same as three ms games, not worth it. I didn't make a big deal, I just didn't make myself available to the ms assigner. I figured the only way it would change was if guys like me refused to work.

You cannot do the same in the new area? Because if you can't then how are you in independent contractor? How can someone make you work anything or make you show up in uniform or else?

I think you are missing my point if you think this is making demands. I simply said what I am going to do and that is not show up to a game in uniform. Now if they want me to work the game, they are obviously going to have to provide some situation. It is not their business to demand why I am in uniform or not. Or do not complain like the email suggested.

Peace

[Adam]

To answer your first point. Had I needed the exposure of working middle school games, the lack of a dressing room wouldn't have deterred me. Further, insisting on a dressing room when the association, for whatever reason, had been unable to negotiate it, would have been a quick path to nowhere. I made a choice to show up in uniform because I didn't like the option of dressing in the public restroom stall. I had a bigger issue with not having a place to retreat at half time, but even then, the real issue was the pay check.

Yes, I could do it here. But again, if a newer official has to choose between visibility/improvement and insisting on a dressing room, he's better off caving on the dressing room issue.

Further, and this is really my main point; just because it's seen as unprofessional in your neck of the woods really doesn't mean jack squat in mine (or the OP's, unless he works in your area). Hence, "check local listings."

[bainsey]

Even in the tiniest middle school I've worked here in the northeast corner, the school has ALWAYS provided a room for basketball officials to change.