Just a Word of Caution...

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I was just asking for a clarification for why is there a double standard concerning the duties/responsibilities of game management.

As I highlighted in red, a simple solution is to ask for a place to change (or as I called it "a place of solitude", instead of automatically expecting a place be provided).

You still brought in the table...when it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

As far as a place to change, if it's a regular season game, I expect a place to be provided before. If there isn't one, then I'll kindly ask for a place. Seems simple enough.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

As far as a place to change, if it's a regular season game, I expect a place to be provided before. If there isn't one, then I'll kindly ask for a place. Seems simple enough.

Yep.

Peace

[zm1283]

From the first two pages of this thread:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Don't you guys provide locker rooms? Not sure why this would even need to be said. Then again again there are people that think going to games dressed is a good thing. I stand corrected.

Peace

No one said it was a good thing, but some have said it is accepted and necessary at times in some areas.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well it might be the norm, but I bet it is not expected by the assignor. I say that because a lot of guys that work those games, are working those games for a reason and their professionalism is one of those reasons. I would never come dressed to a game for so many reasons I have talked about before. They better put me in some office somewhere or I am not working the game. I am not coming out of the rain, snow or wind in my black pants that just got dirty from the outside elements. That is just not going to happen.

How do you know? There are multiple varsity officials in this area that work 3:00 MS games in the fall that go to these games dressed. That doesn't mean they are any less professional. The coaches at these schools don't give a damn how the officials arrive. They are just glad that two people are there to work their game.

On the second part, no one said that YOU have to go to any game dressed.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The reason you do not go to a game in a uniform, is the people that see you come in the court in your cloths think two things. They think you are coming from a game or you are about to go to another when you leave. Not everyone that goes and watches a game is knows all the situations in which you took the game and the first impression you give them is the one might make more decisions about you. I know officials that could not work other levels because of the professionalism they displayed when someone of significant saw them. At a JH or Middle school game, someone's kids are playing and if the right person's kids are playing or grandchildren, they might not give you a shot if they think you are not professional.

I can tell you from experience that the people who are at the 3:00 MS games here do not care if you show up dressed or not.

Just because everyone else does it is not a good excuse IMO. They better give me a room somewhere or I am not working. This is a choice.

Again, no one said that YOU have to arrive to a game already dressed.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You can have personal standards that do not apply to everyone. Just because there might be people in my area that show up wearing jeans, does not mean we have to do the same.

Peace

No one said that you do.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zm1283

How do you know? There are multiple varsity officials in this area that work 3:00 MS games in the fall that go to these games dressed. That doesn't mean they are any less professional. The coaches at these schools don't give a damn how the officials arrive. They are just glad that two people are there to work their game.

Working varsity at some point does not exonerate you from acts of professionalism.

And you claim they do not give a damn but something tells me based on experience that is not totally true. A long time varsity guy and I worked a JH tournament (local) tournament some years ago for a varsity assignor and we worked two games that afternoon. We both showed up to the game not dressed in uniform and got dressed in an office or teacher's lounge. I will never forget the scorer on that game in about the first quarter of the first game said to me in an amazed voice, "You guys must be varsity officials?" I was surprised and asked her "Why do you think that?" She said, "Because you guys do everything so professionally. Most of the officials we see are so sloppy and we have to try to figure out what you they are doing. With you guys we know what your fouls are and how you deal with us is so professional." I did not even think we were doing anything special and I certainly did not tell them what we had done, but they figured it out. BTW, I also heard a positive word about our job from the assignor who appreciated our effort as the school administrators also appreciated our effort that night.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Working varsity at some point does not exonerate you from acts of professionalism.

And you claim they do not give a damn but something tells me based on experience that is not totally true. A long time varsity guy and I worked a JH tournament (local) tournament some years ago for a varsity assignor and we worked two games that afternoon. We both showed up to the game not dressed in uniform and got dressed in an office or teacher's lounge. I will never forget the scorer on that game in about the first quarter of the first game said to me in an amazed voice, "You guys must be varsity officials?" I was surprised and asked her "Why do you think that?" She said, "Because you guys do everything so professionally. Most of the officials we see are so sloppy and we have to try to figure out what you they are doing. With you guys we know what your fouls are and how you deal with us is so professional." I did not even think we were doing anything special and I certainly did not tell them what we had done, but they figured it out. BTW, I also heard a positive word about our job from the assignor who appreciated our effort as the school administrators also appreciated our effort that night.

Peace

And getting dressed at the site was one of the keys to all this positive feedback?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

And getting dressed at the site was one of the keys to all this positive feedback?

Of course not because that is expected here at all games. But the way we carried ourselves is not just what you call in the game. I know you think it is, but it is not.

Peace

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Working varsity at some point does not exonerate you from acts of professionalism.

And you claim they do not give a damn but something tells me based on experience that is not totally true. A long time varsity guy and I worked a JH tournament (local) tournament some years ago for a varsity assignor and we worked two games that afternoon. We both showed up to the game not dressed in uniform and got dressed in an office or teacher's lounge. I will never forget the scorer on that game in about the first quarter of the first game said to me in an amazed voice, "You guys must be varsity officials?" I was surprised and asked her "Why do you think that?" She said, "Because you guys do everything so professionally. Most of the officials we see are so sloppy and we have to try to figure out what you they are doing. With you guys we know what your fouls are and how you deal with us is so professional." I did not even think we were doing anything special and I certainly did not tell them what we had done, but they figured it out. BTW, I also heard a positive word about our job from the assignor who appreciated our effort as the school administrators also appreciated our effort that night.

Peace

Maybe you mechanics are just better than MS officials? None of that has to do with the fact that you threw a fit over people going to games dressed.

[letemplay]

For you guys that go to game site dressed because there's no place to change, where do you conduct your pregame? At center court? In lobby by popcorn machine? (actually had a guy that wanted to do that one night)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Maybe you mechanics are just better than MS officials? None of that has to do with the fact that you threw a fit over people going to games dressed.

Threw a fit? Did I throw my computer across the room? Did I get upset and have the conversation with others outside of this forum?

Actually I do not give a damn what you do when it is all said and done. But I wonder when guys complain they did not get a game, they cannot get hired by a certain person or they have problems with coaches, a lot of that I am sure is the situation of how you handle all these situations we just talked about. Coaches and fans do not form opinions of us just because we show up. It is your career, go to any game you like and look anyway you like. I would not go a date, job interview or to church in a t-shirt and jeans, not going to start doing that when most coaches are not wearing those things to the very same game and that includes MS games and call myself professional.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

I think nearly 100 posts on this is enough.

If you "demand" more than is normal in your area for that level, you will be viewed as high maintenance. If you do less than is normal, you will be viewed as unprofessional.

Neither is good. Both can be overcome, but it's better not to have to do so.

Getting butt neckid in a JH parking lot is never (?) a good idea.

[InsideTheStripe]

Originally Posted by just another ref

And getting dressed at the site was one of the keys to all this positive feedback?

I would expect it went into the overall impression.

People don't start their judgments of us when we walk on the field, court or mat and end when we walk off the playing surface. Their judgments begin with first contact and continue through the lifetime of the "relationship". I attempt to make the best impression at each point of contact. It is my belief that it is more professional to arrive and leave the contest site as inconspicuously as possible. It is impossible to not attract attention when you get out of or into your car wearing an officiating uniform.

I've always been instructed to dress for the job I want and emulate people in positions to which I aspire. I believe that to be sound advice that I use in my personal and professional life. I don't treat officiating as an avocation; it's as much a part of my professional life as my day job. I can't help but wonder when the last time a DI official in any sport showed up to a contest in uniform.

Since I seem to be out on a limb with Jeff, maybe it's a local thing... but I doubt it.