Just a Word of Caution...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Even in the tiniest middle school I've worked here in the northeast corner, the school has ALWAYS provided a room for basketball officials to change.

Also the case when I worked ms games in Iowa. Normally, if you ask, they'll give you a coach's office at least. I have, however, had schools where there were three options: 1, public restroom. 2, share a locker room with the home team. 3, come dressed. I chose #3 because it was what the others were doing, and it wasn't worth standing out with this issue in that city.

[JRutledge]

If I cannot talk about professionalism, then no one better not ever talk about mechanics, uniforms or how we communicate with coaches. All those things are subjected to standards that vary and philosophy. And all my professionalism standards has little to do with where I live. I feel things should be done a certain way for this thing we call officiating regardless of where it takes place. I am not going dressed to a game. Not everyone comes from a place they can change before they get to any game. It sounds like you are putting a local standard on my opinion as well.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If I cannot talk about professionalism, then no one better not ever talk about mechanics, uniforms or how we communicate with coaches. All those things are subjected to standards that vary and philosophy. And all my professionalism standards has little to do with where I live. I feel things should be done a certain way for this thing we call officiating regardless of where it takes place. I am not going dressed to a game. Not everyone comes from a place they can change before they get to any game. It sounds like you are putting a local standard on my opinion as well.

Peace

I'm not the one who claimed my opinion doesn't depend on locality.

[RookieDude]

I like doing MS games...(Well a few anyway)

* Gets me "in the mood" for the upcoming HS season.

* I get to see some of the up and coming rookies.

* I get to do a little instructing, mentoring, etc.

* My assignor likes it.

* Oh yeah...we are paid $38 dollars per game...and do two consecutive games. 2 person

P.S. Just so you know I don't do it strickley for the money...I'll sometimes show up and do 3 person mechanics for free. (once or twice a year)
We do all HS games 3 person.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm not the one who claimed my opinion doesn't depend on locality.

I said what I was going to do first and foremost. You tried to claim that I said I would not work the game, which is not exactly what I said. I actually said if that was the norm then I would not accept games at that level.

If an official does not come dressed to a game (e.g. job situations) and they want the official to work the game and not leave, they better provide somewhere for them to get dressed or they do not have the right to complain like this email suggested. And yes I have the courage to either complain or to change that policy for the reasons I stated.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I said what I was going to do first and foremost. You tried to claim that I said I would not work the game, which is not exactly what I said. I actually said if that was the norm then I would not accept games at that level.

If an official does not come dressed to a game (e.g. job situations) and they want the official to work the game and not leave, they better provide somewhere for them to get dressed or they do not have the right to complain like this email suggested. And yes I have the courage to either complain or to change that policy for the reasons I stated.

Peace

I would hate to have misread you (done it before).

Let's see if I can figure out where I may have got the impression that you wouldn't work "the game."
While we're at it, I'll see if I can find a statement that indicates you're projecting your opinion onto the assigner of the OP.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well it might be the norm, but I bet it is not expected by the assignor. I say that because a lot of guys that work those games, are working those games for a reason and their professionalism is one of those reasons. I would never come dressed to a game for so many reasons I have talked about before. They better put me in some office somewhere or I am not working the game. I am not coming out of the rain, snow or wind in my black pants that just got dirty from the outside elements. That is just not going to happen.

Yep, as always, the misunderstanding was my fault.

[Camron Rust]

There is a certain level of "professionalism" in the off-the-court stuff that we do that is appropriate for each level of game. To impose college level expectations or even HS level expectations on a MS game is the equivalent of being overly officious on the court. With MS games, they're just glad to have someone show up. They're not going to care that you came dressed. If you do a good job on the court, they're really not going to care about how you arrived.

[grunewar]

I have never gone to a game dressed in full uniform. Closest I will come is for a Rec Game where I might where my pants and change shoes and shirt somewhere upon arrival.

As I was coming through the ranks, I never reffed a scholastic game, that I can recall, where the school didn't provide me someplace to go - mostly an office or locker room. I've even used a bathroom, kitchen, a "private" hallway, and behind the curtain on a stage.

[JRutledge]

Snaqwells,

I did not blame you. Again one of the misunderstandings you and I will always have, I do not have to work these games, so I can set the parameters in which I work games. That will be the case even if I move, because officiating is not going to be most people's primary officiating or income. I do not feel like when I work I have to give charity to work any game. If the situations are not right, I would rather sit home than subject myself to something that is not right in my mind. And since I have been working games and know many people that are all over the country or this region of the country, I have never heard anyone suggest they could not get a locker room to work any level game other than maybe summer ball where no one has a locker room. But if the teams have a locker room, so should we.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

There is a certain level of "professionalism" in the off-the-court stuff that we do that is appropriate for each level of game. To impose college level expectations or even HS level expectations on a MS game is the equivalent of being overly officious on the court. With MS games, they're just glad to have someone show up. They're not going to care that you came dressed. If you do a good job on the court, they're really not going to care about how you arrived.

Help me understand your point for a second. We have people here that talk all the time about what is professional and proper as it relates to the mechanics and rules and all of a sudden we get to a JH game and all that flies out the window? If I suggested for a second that you should not use proper mechanics for example because it is a JH game I would get killed for saying just that thing or if I said that we should not do those things because it is a JH game and they do not rise to the level of importance of the high school or college level. How do you think that would go over here?

BTW, in the NF mechanics book under Game Management, there is a section that tells the schools what are to be expected of them to the officials. One of them on page 83 clearly says:

"Provide a clean, private dressing room with shower or nearby shower stall. Before and after a game and at halftime, the official’s room(s) should be "out of bounds" for everyone except the few who have a definite assignment there."

All of that is said does not distinguish the level or the circumstances. Now I am not asking for all of what that book states, because in many cases we do not get a shower and frankly some have been a utility closet for lack of a better term, but it was so we could go and not be exposed to the fans or coaches after the game. If you have no place to go, that is exactly what will and has happen. And many of these schools I would not take a shower in them with a full body suit, but at least we have some place to talk or discuss situations. I am not sure how you can have a candid pre-game while on the court because anything we say can and has been misconstrued and even gotten officials in trouble (Remember the officials that were overheard when they made comments about a coach some years back?). I do not think it is asking too much to have some place that we can talk or get away from fans. If there is an assault or confrontation, not having a private place could easily be the cause of that. And it is much more likely at these games than most HS or college games where there is much more security and accountability.

Peace

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Help me understand your point for a second. We have people here that talk all the time about what is professional and proper as it relates to the mechanics and rules and all of a sudden we get to a JH game and all that flies out the window? If I suggested for a second that you should not use proper mechanics for example because it is a JH game I would get killed for saying just that thing or if I said that we should not do those things because it is a JH game and they do not rise to the level of importance of the high school or college level. How do you think that would go over here?

BTW, in the NF mechanics book under Game Management, there is a section that tells the schools what are to be expected of them to the officials. One of them on page 83 clearly says:

"Provide a clean, private dressing room with shower or nearby shower stall. Before and after a game and at halftime, the official’s room(s) should be "out of bounds" for everyone except the few who have a definite assignment there."

All of that is said does not distinguish the level or the circumstances. Now I am not asking for all of what that book states, because in many cases we do not get a shower and frankly some have been a utility closet for lack of a better term, but it was so we could go and not be exposed to the fans or coaches after the game. If you have no place to go, that is exactly what will and has happen. And many of these schools I would not take a shower in them with a full body suit, but at least we have some place to talk or discuss situations. I am not sure how you can have a candid pre-game while on the court because anything we say can and has been misconstrued and even gotten officials in trouble (Remember the officials that were overheard when they made comments about a coach some years back?). I do not think it is asking too much to have some place that we can talk or get away from fans. If there is an assault or confrontation, not having a private place could easily be the cause of that. And it is much more likely at these games than most HS or college games where there is much more security and accountability.

Peace

You're establishing a double standard by saying you wish that game management provide the officials a place of solitude, yet have earlier stated could really not care about the selection of & training of the table officials.

Instead of just expecting the AD or authorized representative providing a place of solitude, how about politely asking if one can be provided?

[APG]

In a thread about dressing accommodations for officials we somehow bring it back to something about the table...LOL!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by chseagle

You're establishing a double standard by saying you wish that game management provide the officials a place of solitude, yet have earlier stated could really not care about the selection of & training of the table officials.

Instead of just expecting the AD or authorized representative providing a place of solitude, how about politely asking if one can be provided?

Why should I not be surprised that you came in this thread and made it about the table in an unrelated issue? Really dude?

Peace

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by chseagle

You're establishing a double standard by saying you wish that game management provide the officials a place of solitude, yet have earlier stated could really not care about the selection of & training of the table officials.

Instead of just expecting the AD or authorized representative providing a place of solitude, how about politely asking if one can be provided?

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

In a thread about dressing accommodations for officials we somehow bring it back to something about the table...LOL!

I was just asking for a clarification for why is there a double standard concerning the duties/responsibilities of game management.

As I highlighted in red, a simple solution is to ask for a place to change (or as I called it "a place of solitude", instead of automatically expecting a place be provided).

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

I was just asking for a clarification for why is there a double standard concerning the duties/responsibilities of game management.

As I highlighted in red, a simple solution is to ask for a place to change (or as I called it "a place of solitude", instead of automatically expecting a place be provided).

You still brought in the table...when it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

As far as a place to change, if it's a regular season game, I expect a place to be provided before. If there isn't one, then I'll kindly ask for a place. Seems simple enough.