Throw-in spot

[Kelvin green]

So here is my take, and I would use the common sense approach

The violation does not occur at the point the shot is taken. I would take the ball closest to where the ball ws when I blew my whistle.

The ball is not dead on a shot... It continues until the ball hits the floor, anoth player. Someplace where it did not get to the rim. Seems that is where th ball is dead and the violation occurs. This seems pretty straightforward to me. So I am going to go nearest spot to where the violation gets called because it is closest to where the violation happened.

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

So here is my take, and I would use the common sense approach

The violation does not occur at the point the shot is taken. I would take the ball closest to where the ball ws when I blew my whistle.

The ball is not dead on a shot... It continues until the ball hits the floor, anoth player. Someplace where it did not get to the rim. Seems that is where th ball is dead and the violation occurs. This seems pretty straightforward to me. So I am going to go nearest spot to where the violation gets called because it is closest to where the violation happened.

I can agree. This is what I have been trying to think of and express.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

So here is my take, and I would use the common sense approach

The violation does not occur at the point the shot is taken. I would take the ball closest to where the ball ws when I blew my whistle.

The ball is not dead on a shot... It continues until the ball hits the floor, anoth player. Someplace where it did not get to the rim. Seems that is where th ball is dead and the violation occurs. This seems pretty straightforward to me. So I am going to go nearest spot to where the violation gets called because it is closest to where the violation happened.

What is in red is incorrect by rule. The try ends when it is clear that it will not be successful and that is well before the ball strikes the floor. Now if you look at the NCAA rules for the location of a ball in flight, you will find that it is considered to be at the place where it last contacted the court or was touched by a player. It is not simply a point straight below where it was in flight. That is what you are failing to appreciate.

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

I'm still going with whenever a shot is taken and is an air ball with the shot clock expired, it will be a baseline throw in because that is where the ball missed and is coming down, which violated the provisions. If it is a half court shot and is tipped and lands at the 3 point line, then couldn't the throw in be on the sideline??

Please read the paragraph above. You are thinking the same way as that poster.

[APG]

You may be correct rule book wise Nevada (and that's a big maybe), but I feel like Kelvin's and NCHSAA's way is the accepted practice. I've never seen an NCAA game where the officials put the throw-in spot in the backcourt on a missed heave from the backcourt that didn't hit the rim. It is almost always put at the nearest spot where the ball was physically located when the whistle was blown.

I think until the NCAA comes out with a directive that supports your position, most will continue to inbound it like they have and quite frankly, it makes more sense to me.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

You may be correct rule book wise Nevada (and that's a big maybe), but I feel like Kelvin's and NCHSAA's way is the accepted practice. I've never seen an NCAA game where the officials put the throw-in spot in the backcourt on a missed heave from the backcourt that didn't hit the rim. It is almost always put at the nearest spot where the ball was physically located when the whistle was blown.

I think until the NCAA comes out with a directive that supports your position, most will continue to inbound it like they have and quite frankly, it makes more sense to me.

Basically what I said 5 days ago on page 1 of this thread.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Scrapper's interp may be technically correct but I can say I've never had a game where the throw-in was brought back out to a designated spot nearest the origin of the shot.

I need to pay attention to some of occurrences on TV games and see what they are doing. Really had never put much thought into it before this discussion. Guess it would make a big difference if it occurred in the waning seconds of a close game.

Do we have any plays readily available on YouTube involving shot clock violations and the subsequent throw-in?

[APG]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Basically what I said 5 days ago on page 1 of this thread.

Haha...my bad!

Do we have any plays readily available on YouTube involving shot clock violations and the subsequent throw-in?

I tried looking earlier, but surprisingly, people don't really put up clips of shot clock violations. I think the only way you'd find someone putting up a clip is if they tried to follow a shaky, maybe technically correct rulebook interpretation.

[Adam]

It strikes me that this violation is, essentially, for maintaining TC for 35 seconds without taking a proper shot; much like the 10 second backcourt violation. It also has an element of an improper shot (a shot that doesn't hit the rim or go through), much like a throw-in violation that doesn't touch a player before going out of bounds. In both of those cases, the throw-in spot is made from the spot nearest where the violating team released the ball.

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It strikes me that this violation is, essentially, for maintaining TC for 35 seconds without taking a proper shot; much like the 10 second backcourt violation. It also has an element of an improper shot (a shot that doesn't hit the rim or go through), much like a throw-in violation that doesn't touch a player before going out of bounds. In both of those cases, the throw-in spot is made from the spot nearest where the violating team released the ball.

But where is the rim? Its not where the shot is taken. If it was not released in time then yes at the spot of the shot would be the throw in. But if it is baseline, then we have the horn, you wait to see if the ball hits the rim, if not then you have a throw in on the baseline. Because it violated that provision of not hitting the rim. You wouldn't back the throw in up all the way to the sideline at halfcourt, for a shot coming short of the rim

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It strikes me that this violation is, essentially, for maintaining TC for 35 seconds without taking a proper shot; much like the 10 second backcourt violation. It also has an element of an improper shot (a shot that doesn't hit the rim or go through), much like a throw-in violation that doesn't touch a player before going out of bounds. In both of those cases, the throw-in spot is made from the spot nearest where the violating team released the ball.

I totally agree with that interp (also given by Scrapper and Nevada among others). However, as I stated earlier I have not seen it administered that way at the college level. Rest assured those first few games that come on TV this season I will be on the look out to see what's actually being done.

It's quite possible that officials are not judging the shot to be missed until the shot hits the floor or a person and thus ruling that is when the violation occurred.

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What is in red is incorrect by rule. The try ends when it is clear that it will not be successful and that is well before the ball strikes the floor. Now if you look at the NCAA rules for the location of a ball in flight, you will find that it is considered to be at the place where it last contacted the court or was touched by a player. It is not simply a point straight below where it was in flight. That is what you are failing to appreciate.


Please read the paragraph above. You are thinking the same way as that poster.

The shot-clock horn does not stop play unless recognized by an official’s whistle. By this time the ball will be close to the floor if not already in contact. "Clear that it will not be successful", what exactly does that mean? A ball that is shot 50 feet into the air from half court, is probably not going to be successful, but how do I know for sure? Unless I wait until it comes down and strikes the floor or is below ring level, which by the time a whistle is given the ball is most likely contacting the floor at that point.

[NCHSAA]

Check these out:

1) Board 41 Nassau County New York
2) http://ds062.k12.sd.us/activities%20...clockrules.pdf

They read:

1) "A-1 shoots and misses rim, horn, shot clock violation, ball to Team B at endline"

2) "If the try is unsuccessful and the ball doesn’t hit the rim or flange you have a shot clock violation, a whistle is sounded by the referee and Team B is awarded a throw-in on the end line"

[Adam]

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

The shot-clock horn does not stop play unless recognized by an official’s whistle. By this time the ball will be close to the floor if not already in contact. "Clear that it will not be successful", what exactly does that mean? A ball that is shot 50 feet into the air from half court, is probably not going to be successful, but how do I know for sure? Unless I wait until it comes down and strikes the floor or is below ring level, which by the time a whistle is given the ball is most likely contacting the floor at that point.

The whistle does not make the ball dead on volations; a basic fundamental. At this point, the whistle is just recognition of a dead ball, which happened while the ball was in the air.

I'm not arguing accepted practice, but it seems to me the rule itself is clear that the ball should be put in play from the spot nearest the point from where it was shot.

And your references above are not official; they are local interpretations. It's like quoting a local beat cop's interpretation of search and seizure laws.

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The whistle does not make the ball dead on volations; a basic fundamental. At this point, the whistle is just recognition of a dead ball, which happened while the ball was in the air.

I'm not arguing accepted practice, but it seems to me the rule itself is clear that the ball should be put in play from the spot nearest the point from where it was shot.

But the ball is still live in the air even though the horn sounded. Until it is unsuccessful, which we do not know until it is clearly unsuccessful (falling below the ring and/or striking the floor)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

But the ball is still live in the air even though the horn sounded. Until it is unsuccessful, which we do not know until it is clearly unsuccessful (falling below the ring and/or striking the floor)

The violation occurs when the ball falls below the ring; the fact that the whistle likely won't blow until it hits the floor is irrelevant.

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The violation occurs when the ball falls below the ring; the fact that the whistle likely won't blow until it hits the floor is irrelevant.

But the whistle acknowledges the violation. There is nothing until the whistle. I agree about the violation but by the time the whistle is blown the ball is falling to the court, if not already contacting it