Throw-in spot

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I agree with rockyroad on what the violation is, but I disagree with his stating that the closest spot is the endline. What if the try is an airball? The violation occurs prior to the ball striking the floor because the try has already ended. So the ball's location is not at a point on the court near the basket. The ball is still in the air and retains the status of when it last touched a player or when it last contacted the court. I'm going with the nearest OOB spot to where the try was released.

The rule doesn't say "ball location" it says "location of the violation."

When A1 inbounds the ball and it bounces on the court, then goes OOB untouched, the ball is brought back to the original throw in spot -- because that's the spot of the violation; it doesn't go to the "ball location."

[rockyroad]

Camron, you conveniently left out the last part of Ar. 2 which both Bob and I have posted - and that is what makes your previous statement wrong.

Nevada - the violation (once the shot has left the hands) is called because the ball did not hit the "rim". That is the spot of the violation so that is where the ball should be put in play, imho.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Camron, you conveniently left out the last part of Ar. 2 which both Bob and I have posted - and that is what makes your previous statement wrong.

Go back and look at what you wrote. You wrote that the ball has to hit the rim before the horn sounds. That is incorrect any way you slice it. You may have meant something else, but that is not what you wrote.

I only said that the release had to be before the horn. The ball can hit the rim after the horn.

Originally Posted by rockyroad

The violation is for the shot not hitting the ring or flange (the rim) before the shot clock horn sounds. Since the ball was in the air but did not hit the ring, the spot nearest the violation should be the endline.

[rockyroad]

Camron - not what I had meant to say at all. My bad. Guess I need to proofread better before I hit "post".

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The rule doesn't say "ball location" it says "location of the violation."

When A1 inbounds the ball and it bounces on the court, then goes OOB untouched, the ball is brought back to the original throw in spot -- because that's the spot of the violation; it doesn't go to the "ball location."

I agree. However, you fail to appreciate that this is precisely my point. The ball didn't violate. The player who threw it did. So where is that player located? Same rationale as the throw-in violation.

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Nevada - the violation (once the shot has left the hands) is called because the ball did not hit the "rim". That is the spot of the violation so that is where the ball should be put in play, imho.

And precisely where is that spot? Some point directly beneath the location of the ball in flight? What if the try is from 3/4 court and was partially blocked such that it eventually lands at the top of the key outside of the 3pt arc? What if the shot is passes completely over the backboard after the shot clock horn sounded? Do you inbound at the same place?

Or are you saying that the location of the ring is the spot of the violation because the ball failed to get there? I don't think I've ever heard anyone advocate that position.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I agree. However, you fail to appreciate that this is precisely my point. The ball didn't violate. The player who threw it did. So where is that player located? Same rationale as the throw-in violation..

That's not clear at all from the way the rule is written. One says (I think) something like "release the ball on a throw-in so it's touched on the court" and the other says something like "the try fails to hit the ring." If the latter was worded "fails to release a try that hits the ring" I'd agree.

If A1's try didn't hit the ring and went OOB (before the shot clock horn sounded), the inbounds spot would be where the ball went OOB, not where the try was attempted.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If A1's try didn't hit the ring and went OOB (before the shot clock horn sounded), the inbounds spot would be where the ball went OOB, not where the try was attempted.

That's because the ball contacted the court. That makes the OOB spot clear. The case we are discussing involves the violation occurring while the ball is still in flight.

The throw-in violation is an exception to the ball last contacting the court concept only because it is a throw-in and it is clearly defined where the subsequent throw-in will occur should a violation take place during the throw-in.

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That's because the ball contacted the court. That makes the OOB spot clear. The case we are discussing involves the violation occurring while the ball is still in flight.

The throw-in violation is an exception to the ball last contacting the court concept only because it is a throw-in and it is clearly defined where the subsequent throw-in will occur should a violation take place during the throw-in.

I'm still going with whenever a shot is taken and is an air ball with the shot clock expired, it will be a baseline throw in because that is where the ball missed and is coming down, which violated the provisions. If it is a half court shot and is tipped and lands at the 3 point line, then couldn't the throw in be on the sideline??

[Kelvin green]

So here is my take, and I would use the common sense approach

The violation does not occur at the point the shot is taken. I would take the ball closest to where the ball ws when I blew my whistle.

The ball is not dead on a shot... It continues until the ball hits the floor, anoth player. Someplace where it did not get to the rim. Seems that is where th ball is dead and the violation occurs. This seems pretty straightforward to me. So I am going to go nearest spot to where the violation gets called because it is closest to where the violation happened.

[NCHSAA]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

So here is my take, and I would use the common sense approach

The violation does not occur at the point the shot is taken. I would take the ball closest to where the ball ws when I blew my whistle.

The ball is not dead on a shot... It continues until the ball hits the floor, anoth player. Someplace where it did not get to the rim. Seems that is where th ball is dead and the violation occurs. This seems pretty straightforward to me. So I am going to go nearest spot to where the violation gets called because it is closest to where the violation happened.

I can agree. This is what I have been trying to think of and express.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

So here is my take, and I would use the common sense approach

The violation does not occur at the point the shot is taken. I would take the ball closest to where the ball ws when I blew my whistle.

The ball is not dead on a shot... It continues until the ball hits the floor, anoth player. Someplace where it did not get to the rim. Seems that is where th ball is dead and the violation occurs. This seems pretty straightforward to me. So I am going to go nearest spot to where the violation gets called because it is closest to where the violation happened.

What is in red is incorrect by rule. The try ends when it is clear that it will not be successful and that is well before the ball strikes the floor. Now if you look at the NCAA rules for the location of a ball in flight, you will find that it is considered to be at the place where it last contacted the court or was touched by a player. It is not simply a point straight below where it was in flight. That is what you are failing to appreciate.

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

I'm still going with whenever a shot is taken and is an air ball with the shot clock expired, it will be a baseline throw in because that is where the ball missed and is coming down, which violated the provisions. If it is a half court shot and is tipped and lands at the 3 point line, then couldn't the throw in be on the sideline??

Please read the paragraph above. You are thinking the same way as that poster.