I violated rule #1.....not THAT rule #1

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

For many, many years I've been in the unfortunate position locally of having to try and find out why we lose so many promising officials each year so that we could maybe find a way to keep them. Invariably the majority answer is that it's just not worth the abuse they have to take. Iirc NASO did similar research and came up with the same answers. So, sorry. My sympathies lie with the officials only. They sureashell don't lie with any coach that would abuse and intimidate officials. Judtech's actions as a coach were detestable and indefensible imo. But hey, defend him if you must. Everybody gets to hold their personal opinion of coaches like Judtech.You know mine. And I'm not changing. I've seen too many good people ....friends....quit officiating because of they abuse they've received.

Maybe the officials that Judtech had in the game he described weren't very good. Hell, maybe they were border-line incompetent. If you feel that's justification for actions like Judtech's though, well, you are entitled to your opinion. And I respect your right to have that opinion. I will never, ever agree with that opinion though. Imo there is never any valid excuse to abuse and intimate any official, no matter how bad that official may be.

Can you show me where Juddtech attempted to excuse or justify his behavior? Like I said, one poor game doesn't make a coach a bad person; especially when he seems legitimately remorseful. I just don't get how we've turned him into Hitler over this.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Can you show me where Juddtech attempted to excuse or justify his behavior? Like I said, one poor game doesn't make a coach a bad person; especially when he seems legitimately remorseful. I just don't get how we've turned him into Hitler over this.

Seeing the biological father that I never saw has been lying in an Air Force military cemetary since 1944 after being KIA on his 30th mission, I really don't think your likening my detest for his actions as turning him into Hitler is very appropriate. I would never dream of making that particular comparison of anyone short of a mass murderer, let alone Judtech no matter how bad Judtech's actions might be in my mind. I detest Judtech's actions and I judged him on those alone. I don't know him as a person.

JUDTECH- "And yes it had the DESIRED affect of freezing their shooter as she procededed to miss her second shot".

That was a deliberate and admittedly planned unsporting act of intimidation to gain an advantage for his girls high school team. You rationalize it. I won't. I don't care how bad the officials are, there is NO excuse imo for behavior like that. If you're getting bad officiating, then complain about it using the appropriate and proper procedure.

Earlier this year, I had an extremely promising young official quit over similar actions from a coach. Deliberate acts to try and intimidate him. Good kid I'd know for years. Knew his father fairly well too. The kid was an outstanding high school player, played college ball while getting his degree and came back to this area to work. Now married with a young daughter. He did a little bit of officiating for us as a high school senior and during summers. He wanted to get involved with officiating again and I thought he had the potential to go to the college level. Now he's gone forever and our association...and basketball in our area.... are the poorer for it.

Can I forgive and forget? Nope. But I certainly can hope that the treatment that Judtech received here will stop him from repeating what he did in the future. And from his later posts, I think that it just might do that. At least maybe he'll think about it the next time he feels like going after officials.

We just have completely different perspectives, Snaqs. That's all I'm going to say.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Seeing the biological father that I never saw has been lying in an Air Force military cemetary since 1944 after being KIA on his 30th mission, I really don't think your likening my detest for his actions as turning him into Hitler is very appropriate. I would never dream of making that particular comparison of anyone short of a mass murderer, let alone Judtech no matter how bad Judtech's actions might be in my mind. I detest Judtech's actions and I judged him on those alone. I don't know him as a person.

First and foremost, my comparison was admittedly over-the-top. I should have known better, and used a different comparison.

I'm sorry.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

JUDTECH- "And yes it had the DESIRED affect of freezing their shooter as she procededed to miss her second shot".

That was a deliberate and admittedly planned unsporting act of intimidation to gain an advantage for his girls high school team. You rationalize it. I won't.

I'm not going to rationalize it, and I don't think he has either. He's stating his intention at the time of the act, not his thoughts afterwards.

One more thing on this point, it only worked to ice the shooter because the official pressed the issue. Once the official blew his whistle to tell the players to move back, the icing was completed.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I don't care how bad the officials are, there is NO excuse imo for behavior like that. If you're getting bad officiating, then complain about it using the appropriate and proper procedure.

Earlier this year, I had an extremely promising young official quit over similar actions from a coach. Deliberate acts to try and intimidate him. Good kid I'd know for years. Knew his father fairly well too. The kid was an outstanding high school player, played college ball while getting his degree and came back to this area to work. Now married with a young daughter. He did a little bit of officiating for us as a high school senior and during summers. He wanted to get involved with officiating again and I thought he had the potential to go to the college level. Now he's gone forever and our association...and basketball in our area.... are the poorer for it.

Can I forgive and forget? Nope. But I certainly can hope that the treatment that Judtech received here will stop him from repeating what he did in the future. And from his later posts, I think that it just might do that. At least maybe he'll think about it the next time he feels like going after officials.

This is perhaps the most salient point made in this thread. There's no place for intimidating tactics, to be sure. That's a coaching issue. From an official's perspective, what about training? I'm seeing this a serious lack of training manifest itself in this;
1. This guy didn't know basic stuff.
2. He didn't know how to properly deal with a mouthy AC.

Let me add, that it seems he knew right away it was inappropriate. This post refers to a practice that likely occurred before he read the comments on this thread:

Originally Posted by Judtech

As I told the girls yesterday in practice "saturday was a great example of someone BEING right, but not acting right. There is an intrinsic value in knowing you are correct, and sometimes it is best to keep that satisfaction to yourself."

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

We just have completely different perspectives, Snaqs. That's all I'm going to say.

Maybe, your perspective is that of a trainer/assigner who deals with the attrition that comes with the way officials are treated by some coaches and fans.

Mine is that of a younger official who's still learning this game. And while I'm not justifying or rationalizing his behavior which has effectively been shown to be lacking in sportsmanship, I don't think we should let these officials off the proverbial hook either. Granted, they're not here to defend themselves, but if nothing else, there's training to be done in how to effectively silence a mouthy AC.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

First and foremost, my comparison was admittedly over-the-top. I should have known better, and used a different comparison.

I'm sorry.

Thank you....and appreciated, Snaqs.

No matter how mad I ever get with Judtech...rightly or wrongly on my part....I'd never dream of making that type of comparison of him. And if I was ever stoopid enough to unthinkingly do something like that, I'd apologize to him in a heartbeat.