I violated rule #1.....not THAT rule #1

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So you're calling him a liar?

I'm not calling him a liar. But embellishment would be a safe call.

If those officials were that incompetent you would think somewhere in the OP there would be a couple a plays where Jud's team benefitted from gross misapplication of the rules. And what did Jud say to the ref in those situations.

Again, sometime I questioned back on page 1.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not calling him a liar. But embellishment would be a safe call.

If those officials were that incompetent you would think somewhere in the OP there would be a couple a plays where Jud's team benefitted from gross misapplication of the rules. And what did Jud say to the ref in those situations.

Again, sometime I questioned back on page 1.

I remember you bringing that up. Frankly, I don't expect him to have done that for a couple of reasons.

1. He's already admitted he was being a jerk.

2. I have never had a coach tell me when he thinks I got a rule wrong in his favor; that's not their job. Their (perceived) job is to let me know when they think their team is getting the short end.

I just don't see that particular angle as telling.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not calling him a liar. But embellishment would be a safe call.

If those officials were that incompetent you would think somewhere in the OP there would be a couple a plays where Jud's team benefitted from gross misapplication of the rules. And what did Jud say to the ref in those situations.

Again, sometime I questioned back on page 1.

I would never expect a coach to speak up on plays where calls go for his team. Matter of fact, I had that happen this year and the coach was just being a smart a$$ -- after he had already received a technical from me. He almost got the gate.

Coaches are advocates for their teams.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Coaches are advocates for their teams.

Head coaches are advocates for their teams. Assistant coaches like Judtech? Not so much.

Officials should also be advocates for their team, their fellow officials. Unfortunately(in my opinion, very unfortunately), some officials aren't. They'll use the same rationalization that Judtech used..... that the official invited that kind of trouble by not knowing the rules.

As I said, imo there's no excuse for behavior like Judtech's, no matter how incompetent the officials were in his game. I don't remember reading anywhere that the officials were incompetent to HIS team ONLY. There's a right way and a wrong way for coaches to deal with what they think are incompetent officials. Judtech opted to take the way that not only publically demeaned the officials but gave his team an admitted unfair advantage. And he was the assistant coach, not the head coach. That's telling to me.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

...
2. I have never had a coach tell me when he thinks I got a rule wrong in his favor; that's not their job. Their (perceived) job is to let me know when they think their team is getting the short end.
...

Typing this at the ATL USO with what seems like an entire infantry of soldiers either coming home or headed out

Missing the point, Snaqs. I'm not really expecting Jud to have said anything, that's just me being an a$$-hat. But it is total bullsh!t that every glaring mistake by the officials went against his team. His team was just as likely to have some "bad" calls go their way but yet here in the forum, where he doesn't need to advocate for his team, he doesn't have one single instance where he says "we sure got the benefit of some horrible officiating on a couple of plays last night".

Thus my opinion about him embellishing the entire story. I can't trust his accounting of the details of each scenario.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

[I][SIZE="1"] Thus my opinion about him embellishing the entire story. I can't trust his accounting of the details of each scenario.

Which begs the question, can anyone really trust anyone elses accounting of details in any scenario? Would you have been more willing to accept the assesment of someone who said they acted in such a way that made them look good? Make them look bad? Conform or contradict your (plural) POV or pre conceived assumptions? A great study is to look at Police Reports or Military After Action reports. More often then not, people who were a part of the same event have different recollections about them. It is just human nature.
Obviously, I was recalling the incidents from my point of view. The officials will have their own point of view, which may or may not correspond with my own recollections. I was not attempting to embellish anything and have stated my reasons for posting what I posted and where I was wrong in my actions.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Judtech

1) Obviously, I was recalling the incidents from my point of view.

2)The officials will have their own point of view, which may or may not correspond with my own recollections.

1) And obviously I was basing my response on my point of view of your point of view.

2) My point of view is based solely ON YOUR own recollections.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Head coaches are advocates for their teams.

During my dark days as a middle school coach, there were times when I debated with an official to simply show my players, and their parents, that I was going to stick up for them when an official made a mistake.

Did I understand why a mistake was made? Of course, been there, done that. Did I think that my debate with the officials would somehow help us win the game ? No. Did I think that my debate with an official would somehow make him a better official by the end of our game? No.

The one, and only, reason was to show my players, and their parents, that I was going to stick up for them. Was I proud of myself? No. Would I do it again if I started coaching again? Probably.

Keep in mind that over the last twenty-five years that I coached I was only charged with one technical foul, for politely questioning a call when I was out of the coaching box. I was way down in the corner politely questioning a call, so I deserved it.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

During my dark days as a middle school coach, there were times when I debated with an official to simply show my players, and their parents, that I was going to stick up for them when an official made a mistake.

Did I understand why a mistake was made? Of course, been there, done that. Did I think that my debate with the officials would somehow help us win the game ? No. Did I think that my debate with an official would somehow make him a better official by the end of our game? No.

The one, and only, reason was to show my players, and their parents, that I was going to stick up for them. Was I proud of myself? No. Would I do it again if I started coaching again? Probably.

Keep in mind that over the last twenty-five years that I coached I was only charged with one technical foul, for politely questioning a call when I was out of the coaching box. I was way down in the corner politely questioning a call, so I deserved it.

A polite T in return, I suppose.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

A polite T in return, I suppose.

Yes. He first pointed out my position on the floor, and then let me have it. I knew I was out of the box, but didn't realize that I was that far out of the box until he pointed. He was the lead on my side and I could have shaken hands with him. Not a good idea to even politely question an official when you're that far out of the box.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) And obviously I was basing my response on my point of view of your point of view.

2) My point of view is based solely ON YOUR own recollections.

So would I then be reading from my point of view, your point of view, disecting my point of view from the point of view of some one with multiple points of view?
Seriously, I agree with what you are saying. I was more directing my response at BNR.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Yes. He first pointed out my position on the floor, and then let me have it. I knew I was out of the box, but didn't realize that I was that far out of the box until he pointed. He was the lead on my side and I could have shaken hands with him. Not a good idea to even politely question an official when you're that far out of the box.

Thankfully you didn't respond with either:
Since a box is a 3 dimensional object, how do you know it just didn't 'fall over and I am standing on top of it? (Took me a sec to get it b4 I T'd em)
Where is my box? Because what you pointed to looks more like a rectangle! (REALLY had to turn the filter up a notch on that one, but smiled as I T'd)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Judtech

So would I then be reading from my point of view, your point of view, disecting my point of view from the point of view of some one with multiple points of view?
Seriously, I agree with what you are saying. I was more directing my response at BNR.

And you're still missing the point. I'm not saying you are embellishing b/c we are only hearing your POV.

I'm saying you are embellishing b/c every single instance of supposed incompetency went against your team. So if you can't be candid enough to bring up a couple of gaffes by the officials which benefitted your team then I call into question your remembrance of the game period.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And you're still missing the point. I'm not saying you are embellishing b/c we are only hearing your POV.

I'm saying you are embellishing b/c every single instance of supposed incompetency went against your team. So if you can't be candid enough to bring up a couple of gaffes by the officials which benefitted your team then I call into question your remembrance of the game period.

And personally, I think that expectation is ridiculous and not relevant to the OP's story.