Team Control Mechanic Not Authorized in Ohio

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'm surprised Lord Byon has not chimed in yet.

Not sure whether you were referring to me, but I do seem to recollect that the state's rationale for using the PC signal for both PC and TC fouls is that it helps everyone understand that we won't be shooting free throws.

Hey, don't roll your eyes at me, buster, it's not my rationale.

[BillyMac]

"Finally, extra caution should be taken when getting involved with Facebook or other internet social media. Officials should never be making attempts to befriend players, in particular, of the opposite gender."

Ohio officials have to be told this ????

[BillyMac]

"A has the ball out of bounds for a throw in. Four team A players line up along the free throw lane in a very close line. (they are spooning) B1 forces his way between two of the team A players."

Can't wait for Mark Padgett to get his hands on this one.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"Finally, extra caution should be taken when getting involved with Facebook or other internet social media. Officials should never be making attempts to befriend players, in particular, of the opposite gender."

Ohio officials have to be told this ????

It might be part of the "Don't talk to the media" and maintain neutrality mantra and got misworded or we got some people trying get a bit too friendly.

We got an email this week from our association secretary to have clothes on when working with female officials, AD's, and team personal, not quite sure who around here is doing this but it makes you wonder...


The JV thing is nice but doesnt quite address the question our association sent them. Which is how does this count for player's quarter limit and if "overtime" in this case is counted as an extension of the last quarter or counts as another quarter against the player's limit.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

It might be part of the "Don't talk to the media" and maintain neutrality mantra and got misworded or we got some people trying get a bit too friendly.

We got an email this week from our association secretary to have clothes on when working with female officials, AD's, and team personal, not quite sure who around here is doing this but it makes you wonder...


The JV thing is nice but doesnt quite address the question our association sent them. Which is how does this count for player's quarter limit and if "overtime" in this case is counted as an extension of the last quarter or counts as another quarter against the player's limit.

The Facebook thing is just common sense. If you are officiating high school basketball/soccer/volleyball, it does not look good when your list of facebook friends includes the good looking point guard (or ugly point guard for that matter) for one of the two teams you are officiating next week. Don't think for a minute that someone for the OTHER TEAM won't discover that little fun fact some how. Never mind the "problems" created by interacting with a minor online. They are just reminding us to be careful.

While we do not typically have the JV problem listed, overtime is always considered to be an extension of the final quarter -- the overtime will only be three minutes in length. Therefore, it is not an official quarter contributing to the 5-quarter per day maximum permitted by the OHSAA.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"Finally, extra caution should be taken when getting involved with Facebook or other internet social media. Officials should never be making attempts to befriend players, in particular, of the opposite gender."

Ohio officials have to be told this ????

Billy:

I am not a friend on my better half's Facebook Page nor am I a friend on our sons' Facebook Pages. Why? I do not have a Facebook Page. LOL

MTD, Sr.

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by jhc2010

This is from the Ohio High School Official Association. They do not allow their officials to use the punch for a team control foul and require officials to go against the NFHS mechanics manual and go behind the head when calling an illegal screen.

"Several questions have been raised concerning the proper signal for a “team control” foul. There has been no change from the previous years. In Ohio, we will continue to use signal #34 for both TEAM and PLAYER control fouls. We will NOT use signal #35 for TEAM control fouls. Again, there is no change from past years."

http://www.ohsaa.org/officials/Offic...TER%202011.pdf

They go on to say later in the Winter Bulletin they issued today:
"Please adhere to the mechanics as outlined in the NF Officials Manual. One of our major goals for the officiating program is consistency in mechanics throughout the state. There is no place for individual preferences and modifications of the mechanics either by association or conference.

What's up with this?

This has been the mechanic since the Team Control foul was created several years ago. The main reason for the mechanic was that scorers AND OFFICIALS know that no free throws are taken when the player control signal is given. To serve as a reminder to the officials that Team Control fouls are non-free throw shooting situations, they elected to go with this mechanic. Ironically, I have frequently seen officials use a combination of signals #34 and #35 when reporting both player control fouls and team control fouls.

Interestingly, I observed a boys varsity game in the premier conference in Central Ohio earlier in the year. The officials did NOT use the OHSAA mechanic OR the NFHS mechanic when calling a team control foul.....and, ended up shooting free throws....doh!!!!!!!!!!

[constable]

Originally Posted by jhc2010

This is from the Ohio High School Official Association. They do not allow their officials to use the punch for a team control foul and require officials to go against the NFHS mechanics manual and go behind the head when calling an illegal screen.

"Several questions have been raised concerning the proper signal for a “team control” foul. There has been no change from the previous years. In Ohio, we will continue to use signal #34 for both TEAM and PLAYER control fouls. We will NOT use signal #35 for TEAM control fouls. Again, there is no change from past years."

http://www.ohsaa.org/officials/Offic...TER%202011.pdf

They go on to say later in the Winter Bulletin they issued today:
"Please adhere to the mechanics as outlined in the NF Officials Manual. One of our major goals for the officiating program is consistency in mechanics throughout the state. There is no place for individual preferences and modifications of the mechanics either by association or conference.

What's up with this?

Any guesses as to the rationale behind this decision?

Sometimes NFHS makes boneheaded decisions regarding mechanics- i.e. trail going table side on FT attempts and I can see an organization wanting to do what is best for the game and their members but this one has me guessing.

Myself, as much as I like the punch for TC fouls, I think it is important to differentiate between a PC and TC foul.

Luckily we are getting into FIBA time now in my area so I get to use their signals for charging fouls by an player with the ball.

[Welpe]

Constable, why do you think it is important to differentiate between the two? Just curious.

[APG]

Originally Posted by constable

Any guesses as to the rationale behind this decision?

Sometimes NFHS makes boneheaded decisions regarding mechanics- i.e. trail going table side on FT attempts and I can see an organization wanting to do what is best for the game and their members but this one has me guessing.

Myself, as much as I like the punch for TC fouls, I think it is important to differentiate between a PC and TC foul.

Luckily we are getting into FIBA time now in my area so I get to use their signals for charging fouls by an player with the ball.

Why is it boneheaded for the trail to go table side on FT attempts? I think it's an excellent mechanic. If a coach has a problem with a call I made, I can deal with it right there and then rather than have my partner deal with that.

Also why do we need to differentiate between player and team control fouls?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Why is it boneheaded for the trail to go table side on FT attempts? I think it's an excellent mechanic. If a coach has a problem with a call I made, I can deal with it right there and then rather than have my partner deal with that.

Also why do we need to differentiate between player and team control fouls?

It is not boneheaded at the NCAA and NBA/WNBA level, BUT not at the NFHS level. Why? Coaches at the H.S. level tend to be (Hank Nichols was once asked does a coach have to do to get a TF from him and he responded "when he acts like a jerk.") jerks, and if the T is the one that called the foul that is drawing the ire of the coach directly behind him, there is a very good chance that a TF could follow.

Why, did the NFHS adopt this stupid (yes, I said stupid) mechanic for H.S. games? Mary Struckhoff is an NCAA Div. I Women's and WNBA official. You do the math. I have officiated college basketball for far too many years than I care to remember and I do not have a problem with being in front of the bench, but it is just a stupid idea for the H.S. game.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. Regarding my second post (Go to Page 4, 3rd post down; it is a good read.) in this thread, I remember now remember what my third point was. If one peruses the first couple of pages of the NFHS Basketball Rules Book, one will find the page with the names and pictures of the members of the Rules Committee. Check out who the Chairman of the Rules Committee and for which StateHSAA he is an Assistant Commissioner.

[constable]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Why is it boneheaded for the trail to go table side on FT attempts? I think it's an excellent mechanic. If a coach has a problem with a call I made, I can deal with it right there and then rather than have my partner deal with that.

Also why do we need to differentiate between player and team control fouls?

Because not every PC foul is a TC foul.

I don't see the advantage of moving yourself closer to a coach. If he has a question, he can ask it and I will address it when time permits.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by constable

Because not every PC foul is a TC foul.

True, but exactly what do you different after you call a TC foul and you do when you call a PC foul? Why the need for two fouls that identify the same action but one tells the offender has the ball or is a shooter (both things everyone can see for themselves).