team control mechanic

#1 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 22, 2005, 09:55pm

Any other states utilizing a different mechanic other than calling and indicating the type of foul and pointing in the direction of the ball? In Tx, we have been told to use the player control mechanic and verbalize that it is a team control foul. When reporting to the table, we once again use the PC mechanic, point and describe the foul (block, etc).

thoughts?

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 22, 2005, 10:24pm

We were told not to use any special mechanic for a team control foul. I do not agree with that way of thinking, but I do not make the rules. I would not be surprised if someone changes that later in the season. Right now we do exactly what Referee Magazine said to do a month or two ago.

Peace

#3 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 23, 2005, 06:35am

One concern that has been raised with using the player control mechanic is insuring strong communication with the scorekeepers. Many will see the PC call and assume the foul is on the player with the ball. It will be our job to insure they are fully aware of who the foul was called on.

ronny mulkey · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 23, 2005, 07:20am

In Georgia, we are using the Women's punch-fist-extended-at-chest level mechanic at the spot of foul. At the table we can further communicate block, push or player control.

JRutledge · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 23, 2005, 10:01am

Quote:

Originally posted by MPLAHE
One concern that has been raised with using the player control mechanic is insuring strong communication with the scorekeepers. Many will see the PC call and assume the foul is on the player with the ball. It will be our job to insure they are fully aware of who the foul was called on.

I completely agree. At least at the college level the people at the table tend to have a better understanding of the game and the NCAA has a signal. At the HS level you might get some kid who is thrown at the position and they will not know what a team control foul is or might assume we are going to be shooting. I just wish our state would come up with a signal to avoid confusion so we will not have correctable errors.

Peace

Rich · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 23, 2005, 10:57am

Quote:

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
In Georgia, we are using the Women's punch-fist-extended-at-chest level mechanic at the spot of foul. At the table we can further communicate block, push or player control.

In my opinion, Georgia got this one right.

Not that my opinion means anything....

PAULK1 · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 23, 2005, 10:08pm

Ga has also extended the leads coverage to the sideline
below the FT line extended like the W. college game.

JRutledge · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 23, 2005, 10:19pm

Why not change all the rules to Women's basketball?

Peace

NICK · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2005, 01:48am

Mechanics as stated by Ronny Mulkey is how it is also done by Fiba officials, cheers

ronny mulkey · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2005, 06:30am

Why not change all the rules to Women's basketball?

Peace [/QUOTE]

Rut,

Good question. Our Commissioner for the State is a Women's official and all his horses and all his men are, too. A lot of the "better" officials here are also involved with the Women's side.

Mulk

cford · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2005, 09:14am

Quote:

Originally posted by PAULK1
Ga has also extended the leads coverage to the sideline
below the FT line extended like the W. college game.

I was told last week that Georgia decided that the Lead would have the sideline OOB call up to Free Throw line extended. This is different from Women's college. Is anyone else doing this and is it better?

jritchie · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2005, 09:28am

can't see the lead calling the sideline up to the free throw line extended.....who is watching the post...you have a trail over there to take care of that...i do think they do something like that in women ncaa though, not sure!! i have heard something about it! i've never done it so don't know if it would be better, but doesn't seem like it, because you would have to rely on knowing your partner has switched from sideline to post when you switch from post to sideline... kinda crazy to me!!!!

JRutledge · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2005, 09:43am

Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
can't see the lead calling the sideline up to the free throw line extended.....who is watching the post...you have a trail over there to take care of that...i do think they do something like that in women ncaa though, not sure!! i have heard something about it! i've never done it so don't know if it would be better, but doesn't seem like it, because you would have to rely on knowing your partner has switched from sideline to post when you switch from post to sideline... kinda crazy to me!!!!

Well the Women's mechanics has the Trail officials calling in the post when the Lead has the ball outside the post in the Lead's expanded area. Now if you ask me this is why I believe I see many calls in the paint not called very well in the Women's game. It seems like the Lead and the Trail are trying to figure out who has a call and sometimes nothing is called. When I worked Women's basketball for a brief time, it was hard to figure out what your partner was doing in those mechanics. As compared to the Men's mechanics and NF mechanics which gives the Lead much less to do. Even the change a few years from the NF that expanded is not used to the letter by many officials I work with because the Trail has a better look at many plays near the FT line.

Peace

SeanFitzRef · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2005, 10:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
can't see the lead calling the sideline up to the free throw line extended.....who is watching the post...you have a trail over there to take care of that...i do think they do something like that in women ncaa though, not sure!! i have heard something about it! i've never done it so don't know if it would be better, but doesn't seem like it, because you would have to rely on knowing your partner has switched from sideline to post when you switch from post to sideline... kinda crazy to me!!!!

But in two-whistle, lead is responsible for the sideline on OOB calls, so why wouldn't that happen? It just seems logical to expand the area, although it would have to be discussed thoroughly in pre-game meetings. Seems L would have to slide further out on the baseline to get proper angle, T would have to be disciplined to look off ball. This would expand the 'GRAY' area where there would be more double calls.

In three-whistle, this would be a moot point.

M&M Guy · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 24, 2005, 11:27am

In NCAA-W, the trail is still responsible for the sideline OOB call, even though it's the L's area of coverage. If the T doesn't see it because they're watching their area, or the post play, they can ask for help from the L, because the L would be on-ball in that case.

As far as confusion between T and L as to who's watching what, I haven't found that to be too much of a problem. The mechanic is for the L to "square up" to the play to show the T they now have on-ball, and that tells the T to cover the post play. For example, say the ball rotates to C's side and stays; C stays with the matchup. L rotates over, but continues to look in the paint and cover the post play, while the new T continues to watch on-ball. Once the L is ball-side, they will continue to watch post play if the old C/new T has a count or a drive. Once there is no immediate action, the L will "square up" to the play, which tells the T they now have off-ball action while the L has on-ball.

It sounds a little strange at first, but I guess like anything, once you get used to it, it's pretty straight forward and easy.