Wrong Number In Book ???

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

We've covered this so many times before, Billy, that you obviously know my response. The team committed an infraction. They must justly be penalized for it.

In this particular case, my sentiments match with Snaqs.


However, even if this team member had not scored, he still participated and the scorer is required to keep a record of all team members who start and those who enter the contest as substitutes. That record is the official scorebook. I'm sure that you've seen the boxes to check off when a team member plays in a particular quarter.
Therefore, I disagree with Judtech's position, but I must concede that someone on the NFHS rules committee feels as he does as shown by the recent NFHS interp.

I was actually wondering about the idea of it being related to him scoring. Frankly, even the fact that he made a shot attempt would, to me, require changing the score book. Further, the fact that he got playing time, which is tracked everywhere at the high school level for participation limitation reasons, means his number needs to be accurate and therefore changed in the book.

That was my thought process earlier, but I questioned it so I stopped after noting he had scored.

Nevada, there's an interp that says if he doesn't score, it can be ignored if we didn't catch it in time?

Frankly, if I was the coach, this is exactly the time I'd want this T charged. The other team is getting the ball anyway, so there's no loss of possession.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I was actually wondering about the idea of it being related to him scoring. Frankly, even the fact that he made a shot attempt would, to me, require changing the score book. Further, the fact that he got playing time, which is tracked everywhere at the high school level for participation limitation reasons, means his number needs to be accurate and therefore changed in the book.

That was my thought process earlier, but I questioned it so I stopped after noting he had scored.

I agree, but more importantly your view is validated by the NFHS rules book per 2-11-1.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Nevada, there's an interp that says if he doesn't score, it can be ignored if we didn't catch it in time?

3.2.2 C was published last season. I strongly disagree with the ruling in part b. I believe that it cannot be substantiated by the text of the rules.

[Judtech]

It had to be written by lawyers!! It is not what you KNOW it is what you can PROVE. How can you prove that 53 was in the game? If the player is not in the book, and had caused nothing in the book to be altered then how can you PROVE that he played? Did the official book fail to enter his name and cross off the quarter played? Yes. But that was not noticed until AFTER this player was OUT of the game. Therefore, if the player does not return to the game you can not PROVE that he was ever (officially) in the game because there would be no alteration to the official ledger recording the game. Sure every mom and pops video camera will show him playing, sure YOU know he played, the radio people know he played, even the running box score computer people know he played. However, none of those are offiical ledgers and recorders of the game, therefore, what they KNOW does not count towards what can be officially PROVED.
Is it semantics. Absolutely. But words means things. (Sort of like the difference between an eligible player and an available player, but I digress)
Fortunately in this case, that can of worms didn't have to be opened and can be returned to the shelf next to the SPAM Hash and sardines!

[bainsey]

Rule 10-1-2c says it's a technical foul if you have to change "a team member's or player's number in the scorebook." It doesn't matter whether the person is on the floor or the bench, and the TF takes place when the error is discovered (provided that team didn't have one earlier).

So, where's the confusion?

[Judtech]

If he is on the bench, then why do you have to change the book?

[bainsey]

Because the book's listing is erroneous.

[Judtech]

The book only lists eligible players. The player being on the bench has nothing to do with his/her name being in the book. It is when the player wants to go into the game that issue of having the name in the official book becomes an issue.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

3.2.2 C was published last season. I strongly disagree with the ruling in part b. I believe that it cannot be substantiated by the text of the rules.

*3.2.2 SITUATION C: Team A substitute No. 25 reports to the table for the first
time with approximately one minute remaining in the second quarter and is beckoned
onto the court. In (a), the ball is put in play by a throw-in from A1 to A2.
The horn sounds and the scorer informs the officials that No. 25 is not listed in
the scorebook. In (b), No. 25 plays the remainder of the second quarter. During
halftime intermission, the official scorer realizes No. 25 is not listed in the scorebook
and informs the officials when they return to the court before the start of
the third quarter. RULING: In (a), No. 25 is currently in the game and became a
player when he/she legally entered the court. Since his or her name and number
must now be entered into the scorebook, a technical foul is charged to Team A.
In (b), no penalty is assessed since No. 25 is not currently in the game. If No. 25
attempts to enter the game in the second half, his or her name and number will
be added to the scorebook and a technical foul charged to Team A. (3-2-2b; 10-
1-2b)