Player of floor

[Gargil]

If the player was trying to get up couldn't that be considered a foul? If he is lying still on the floor that is not a foul as he is entitled to that space on the floor.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Gargil

If the player was trying to get up couldn't that be considered a foul?

No, unless that player interfered with the player with the ball by doing something like extending a leg into the other player's path while trying to get up.

[jeffpea]

does the player on the floor (B2) have legal guarding position?

by rule, he is entitled to that space, but if he has legal guarding position when contact is made then the only foul that can be called is a player control foul on A2.

from what you describe, I am calling a foul on B2 as he does not have LGP and his contact has caused the ball handler to lose the ball/lose his balance (iow - the defender has gained an advantage as a result of his illegal contact).

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

does the player on the floor (B2) have legal guarding position?

by rule, he is entitled to that space, but if he has legal guarding position when contact is made then the only foul that can be called is a player control foul on A2.

from what you describe, I am calling a foul on B2 as he does not have LGP and his contact has caused the ball handler to lose the ball/lose his balance (iow - the defender has gained an advantage as a result of his illegal contact).

Well you're consistent anyway.

Wrong...but consistent.

1st time ever

Note the old case play cited and quoted on page 4.

This is at least the third time this exact question has come up and been discussed in the last 2 months.

[SAJ]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

does the player on the floor (B2) have legal guarding position?

by rule, he is entitled to that space, but if he has legal guarding position when contact is made then the only foul that can be called is a player control foul on A2.

from what you describe, I am calling a foul on B2 as he does not have LGP and his contact has caused the ball handler to lose the ball/lose his balance (iow - the defender has gained an advantage as a result of his illegal contact).

I'm calling a foul on B2 also...only because they were trying to get up and caused the contact.

JR, just wondering if it matters if the player on the floor is moving (getting up) or lying still?

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by SAJ

I'm calling a foul on B2 also...only because they were trying to get up and caused the contact.

JR, just wondering if it matters if the player on the floor is moving (getting up) or lying still?

IMO you have to go get this foul...I agree with SAJ

[Anchor]

Incidental contact. No legal guarding position so unlikely to be a player control foul. Definitely entitled to the spot as he got there first and is not extending his space to create contact.

Just like the slashing driver that careens off the side of a couple set players on the way to the hoop who may wind up on his butt, no foul on the defense for simply occupying a spot, and player control unlikely.

The contact created a travel? Tough luck--that may teach him to stay in his own space. Send the ball the other way and tell the coach to sit down and shut up (nicely and properly, of course )

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by SAJ

I'm calling a foul on B2 also...only because they were trying to get up and caused the contact.

JR, just wondering if it matters if the player on the floor is moving (getting up) or lying still?

I'm not JR, but the answer is: it depends.

If all he does is get up, presumably he's still simply occupying his spot on the floor. In that case, by NF rules he's still legal, and should not be called for a foul. Such movement would be covered by the principle of verticality.

If his attempt to get up involves moving an arm or leg off his spot on the floor such that it causes contact that puts an opponent at a disadvantage, then that should be called a foul.

[riden]

So, is this scenario a foul in FIBA?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I'm not JR, but the answer is: it depends.

If all he does is get up, presumably he's still simply occupying his spot on the floor. In that case, by NF rules he's still legal, and should not be called for a foul. Such movement would be covered by the principle of verticality.

If his attempt to get up involves moving an arm or leg off his spot on the floor such that it causes contact that puts an opponent at a disadvantage, then that should be called a foul.

I am JR and I agree.

That case play cited in the old thread gave us that direction that Mike summed up above- "Unless B1 made an effort to trip up or block A1, he/she is entitled to a position on the court, even though if it is momentarily lying on the floor after falling down."

So, it depends.

[Gargil]

Does the principle of verticality apply if the player does not have LGP.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jeffpea

does the player on the floor (B2) have legal guarding position?

by rule, he is entitled to that space, but if he has legal guarding position when contact is made then the only foul that can be called is a player control foul on A2.

from what you describe, I am calling a foul on B2 as he does not have LGP and his contact has caused the ball handler to lose the ball/lose his balance (iow - the defender has gained an advantage as a result of his illegal contact).

You have nicely stated the NCAA ruling on this--foul on the defender because he does not have a legal defensive position.

However, remember that there is a difference between having a legal spot on the floor by getting there first without illegally contacting an opponent and having LGP. The NFHS has stated that a player should not be charged with a foul when he has obtained a legal spot on the court even though he doesn't have LGP if an opponent runs into or trips over him.

So if you are calling a HS game, you should follow the HS ruling and not impose your own personal sentiments.