Player on the floor

[LepTalBldgs]

Saw a game today and had this question.

If there is rebounding action and the offensive player falls to the floor trying to get a rebound but a defensive player grabs the rebound, what do you have if the ball handler trips over the player lying on the floor and loses the ball? Is your answer different if the player is just lying there versus actively trying to get up?

Sorry if this has been discussed before but I don't remember this being addressed in the case books.

[BktBallRef]

As long as the player doesn't extend his arms or legs into the path of the rebounder, he's entitled to his spot on the floor.

[mick]

Originally posted by LepTalBldgs
Saw a game today and had this question.

If there is rebounding action and the offensive player falls to the floor trying to get a rebound but a defensive player grabs the rebound, what do you have if the ball handler trips over the player lying on the floor and loses the ball? Is your answer different if the player is just lying there versus actively trying to get up?

Sorry if this has been discussed before but I don't remember this being addressed in the case books.

First part sounds like a possible travel.
Second part depends on "how actively".
mick

[Bart Tyson]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
As long as the player doesn't extend his arms or legs into the path of the rebounder, he's entitled to his spot on the floor.

Lying on floor, I would have to say, his legs are extended. How can he have legal guarding possition?

[BktBallRef]

I didn't say he had LGP. But he's entitled to his spot, if he got there without illegally contacting an opponent. Now, if he raises, moves or sticks his leg out in the rebounders's path and creates contact, he's fouled.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I didn't say he had LGP. But he's entitled to his spot, if he got there without illegally contacting an opponent. Now, if he raises, moves or sticks his leg out in the rebounders's path and creates contact, he's fouled.

I agree with Tony.

The rules agree with Tony too. See casebook play 10-6-1SitE-- "No infraction or foul has occured and play continues. Unless B1 has made an attempt to trip or block A1 , he/she is entitled to a position on the court even if it is momentarily lying on the floor after falling down".

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I agree with Tony.

The rules agree with Tony too. See casebook play 10-6-1SitE-- "No infraction or foul has occured and play continues. Unless B1 has made an attempt to trip or block A1 , he/she is entitled to a position on the court even if it is momentarily lying on the floor after falling down".

NCAA disagrees.

http://www.ncaa.com/champadmin/baske...10bulletin.pdf

It's kinda long but jump to page 8, play #3:

. BR-72, Rule 4-33, Guarding. B1 slips to the floor in the free-throw lane. A1 (with his or her back to prone B1) receives a pass, turns and, in his or her attempt to drive to the basket, trips and falls over B1. RULING: Foul on B1, who has taken an illegal defensive position (NCAA memorandum January 23, 1996, page 3).

[ChuckElias]

Darn, Dan beat me to it. Tweet! Block.

[WinterWillie]

Originally posted by LepTalBldgs
Saw a game today and had this question.

If there is rebounding action and the offensive player falls to the floor trying to get a rebound but a defensive player grabs the rebound, what do you have if the ball handler trips over the player lying on the floor and loses the ball? Is your answer different if the player is just lying there versus actively trying to get up?

Sorry if this has been discussed before but I don't remember this being addressed in the case books.

If this was an NCAA game on TV, I saw the game. The officials got it wrong. The player (B1)lying on the floor was charged with a foul. What the officials missed was the push by player (A1) that put him on the floor before he (A1) fell over him. Ah, instant replay, 20/20. The case play mentioned in this thread is not relevant to this play, because the player (B1) who went down was not directly under the basket when he was on the floor and the player (A1)under the basket could easily have scored but he (A1) backed up into the player (B1) (that he had pushed to the floor) and then fell on him. Of course, I am assuming we were watching the same game on the tube.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by WinterWillie

If this was an NCAA game on TV, I saw the game. The officials got it wrong. The player (B1)lying on the floor was charged with a foul. What the officials missed was the push by player (A1) that put him on the floor before he (A1) fell over him. Ah, instant replay, 20/20. The case play mentioned in this thread is not relevant to this play, because the player (B1) who went down was not directly under the basket when he was on the floor and the player (A1)under the basket could easily have scored but he (A1) backed up into the player (B1) (that he had pushed to the floor) and then fell on him. Of course, I am assuming we were watching the same game on the tube.

- what part did the officials get "wrong"?
- where in the case play posted here does it say "B1 was under the basket"?

[RecRef]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson

Lying on floor, I would have to say, his legs are extended. How can he have legal guarding possition?

LGP

LGP only gives the defender added protection when contact happens. It is not the be all/end all in a block, charge situation.

[ChuckElias]

Darn it! Dan beat me to it again. The play is specifically addressed in Hank Nichols' first bulletin of the season. Dan already pasted the whole case play, but I'll do it again.

3. BR-72, Rule 4-33, Guarding. B1 slips to the floor in the free-throw lane. A1 (with his or her back to prone B1) receives a pass, turns and, in his or her attempt to drive to the basket, trips and falls over B1. RULING: Foul on B1, who has taken an illegal defensive position (NCAA memorandum January 23, 1996, page 3).

This seems directly applicable to the original question, and does not apply only to situations where the prone player is under the basket.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Darn it! Dan beat me to it again. The play is specifically addressed in Hank Nichols' first bulletin of the season. Dan already pasted the whole case play, but I'll do it again.

This seems directly applicable to the original question, and does not apply only to situations where the prone player is under the basket.

And of course under ncaam we don't (or shouldn't) care if he's under the basket or not.

[CYO Butch]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Darn it! Dan beat me to it again. The play is specifically addressed in Hank Nichols' first bulletin of the season. Dan already pasted the whole case play, but I'll do it again.

This seems directly applicable to the original question, and does not apply only to situations where the prone player is under the basket.

Isn't the reference more closely in keeping with the requirement that a back screener give the opponent a step of space? The reference talks about A1 having "his or her back to the prone B1", whereas the original question makes no mention of the player who fell to the floor being behind the other player. The reference also is under the heading "Guarding", which doesn't seem to be the case here. Finally, while I don't know if it is relevant, in the reference there is team control by A, while in the question there is no team control during the attempt to get the rebound. It strikes be that there are enough differences that I question whether the reference should apply.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by CYO Butch

Isn't the reference more closely in keeping with the requirement that a back screener give the opponent a step of space?

JMO, but no. The case clearly states that if A1 trips over prone B1, it's a blocking foul on B1. That's all I need.