Neat InBound Play

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant

Louisville @ Seton Hall tonight. In final seconds of close game, defense challenging, player inbounding takes step across line and then throws ball to referee. Referee throws back to inbounder who makes nice pass to beat the pressure.

I hope a lot of coaches were watching because thats a great play, sort of a 6 on 5.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Is it just me, or did it sound like a whistle was blown after the made basket? You can see all the players stop play as if one was blown. That's the only way I can see why the violation wasn't called.

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

Certainly not as clear as watching it on ESPN360 but here is what it looked like for those who don't get ESPN360 or have it Tivo-ed

YouTube - Seaton Hall Louisville Inbound Play 2010

or

YouTube - Seaton Hall Louisville.avi

For those who haven't seen this, you absolutely must have a look.
It says SETON HALL PIRATES across the end line from opposite table to the the tableside with the "ALL P" within the FT lane lines extended.

My observations:
1. There is definitely a whistle following the made 3pt goal by LV. I managed to pause the video at 1.1 after the ball passed through, but the clock runs down to 0.7.
2. All of the players stop due to that sound.
3. The inbounder is on the opposite side of the basket from the new Trail who is tableside. He collects the ball steps OOB with both feet and then carries the ball onto the court by stepping back inbounds with both feet as he seems to be confused. He is about to toss the ball to the covering official, Tony Greene, but then one of his teammate calls for it and the other players start to play. The inbounder is standing with both feet inbounds and turns and looks to make the throw-in pass from that location to his teammate. During this action Greene has counted to two.
4. Tony Greene now steps forward and whistles. The play is clearly dead at this point. He motions the player back behind the line. The player tosses him the ball, and then he throws it back to him and starts the five second count.
5. Rick Pitino, the LV coach, runs down the sideline to argue for a throw-in violation.
6. The Seton Hall player attempts a throw-in pass from between the N and H in SETON HALL, which the LV defender blocks by CLEARLY reaching across the boundary plane and deflecting the ball just after it comes out of the thrower's hands and the ball bounces OOB twice and Greene catches it. The first bounce of the ball seems to be on the P in PIRATES on the tableside part of the end line, which means the ball was in the air for the length of the FT lane. No time comes off the clock during this action!
7. Greene does not penalize the LV player for his infraction. It should be a technical foul, class B.
8. Greene walks Pitino back to his bench and then administers Seton Hall another throw-in.
9. Greene is not precise with where he administers this designated-spot throw-in. The first look that we have is the thrower on the opposite side of the basket from before and on the A in PIRATES. The thrower moves along the end line, more than 3ft in my opinion, and throws the ball in while straddling the I. No violation is called.
10. Seton Hall catches it and is fouled with 0.2 seconds remaining.

What a mess.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by justacoach

I think Mr Tony Greene got some 'splainin to do why he didn't hit his whistle for throw-in violation......

Agree. I was watching it live and saw the replays. Thrower with the ball OOB----> count started---> thrower steps on court.

Should be interesting.......but as usual, I ain't judging anybody until I hear the 'splainin'.

[SAJ]

I believe the inadvertant whistle caused this whole mess. I'm not penalizing a team for one of our screwups. Reset the play and move on.

It appears obvious the inbounder doesn't know his position on the floor. Looks like he gathers the ball after the shot, hears the whistle, then moves in to find out what the call is. Sees no action by an official and "attempts" to inbounds from his current location (likely because he's still in the same colored floor area). No excuse for his actions, but upon the whistle from the L moves to his correct location.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

6. The Seton Hall player attempts a throw-in pass from between the N and H in SETON HALL, which the LV defender blocks by CLEARLY reaching across the boundary plane and deflecting the ball just after it comes out of the thrower's hands and the ball bounces OOB twice and Greene catches it. The first bounce of the ball seems to be on the P in PIRATES on the tableside part of the end line, which means the ball was in the air for the length of the FT lane. No time comes off the clock during this action!
7. Greene does not penalize the LV player for his infraction. It should be a technical foul, class B.

Is the NCAA rule on boundary planes different than the NFHS?

If not, the deflection of the ball after it was released would be legal, would it not? Likely he had to reach across the plane of the boundary before the ball was released which should have resulted in a DOG warning?

Everything else I agree on. This was a mess.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Is the NCAA rule on boundary planes different than the NFHS?

Yes.

[LeeBallanfant]

Originally Posted by SAJ

I believe the inadvertant whistle caused this whole mess. I'm not penalizing a team for one of our screwups. Reset the play and move on.

It appears obvious the inbounder doesn't know his position on the floor. Looks like he gathers the ball after the shot, hears the whistle, then moves in to find out what the call is. Sees no action by an official and "attempts" to inbounds from his current location (likely because he's still in the same colored floor area). No excuse for his actions, but upon the whistle from the L moves to his correct location.

The inbounder is Keon Lawrence who was out on $25k bail for driving the wrong way on the Garden State Parkway, so probably baselines etc. are much too difficult for him to comprehend.

Here is part of story from Newark Star Ledger with numerous inaccuracies. Free-throw woes almost cause collapse, but Seton Hall wins 80-77 over Louisville | Seton Hall Sports - - Seton Hall Sports - NJ.com

[FONT="Century Gothic"][SIZE="4"][SIZE="5"]"Pirates guard Keon Lawrence, who earlier yesterday turned himself in to New Jersey State Police and paid bail of $25,000 in Sayreville Borough Municipal Court in regard to a charge of assault-by-auto and driving with a suspended license from November, appeared to step over the baseline before inbounding the ball, before referee Jim Burr pulled him back(Tony Greene not Jim Burr and nobody pulled him back). [/B][/COLOR]Louisville coach Rick Pitino ran out to almost midcourt [B](he ran to baseline abut 5 feet onto court)[/B] arguing for a turnover. Seton Hall claimed it heard a whistle and saw Pitino calling for a timeout.

Confusion ensued with neither side exactly sure of what had happened.

“Keon said he wanted to get it out of bounds as soon as possible so the [B]clock would run down (The clock is going to run down after a field goal?).” Gonzalez said. “They said there was some kind of inadvertent whistle. I think a whistle blew that wasn’t supposed to blow, which kind of hurt us because now we’ve got to get it inbounds again. So I don’t know what happened.” (Well this is true)

[KJUmp]

Nice job on the post Nevada...it explains (I guess) most of what happened in the sitch.
Am I correct in saying that the missing piece of information to all of us following this bizarre play is...why the whistle that occurred somewhere between 1.1 and 0.7?
What are the chances (if any) of any explanation of the play coming from the Big East?

[BBall_Junkie]

I have watched the Zapruder film on this many times and am convinced that the man with the umbrella standing in section 102 blew the mysterious whistle.

[Clark Kent]

A few questions on this play that maybe some of you experts can help me with and maybe will just remain a mystery and can't be answered.

1. Why didn't they reset everything regardless of whether the whistle came from them or the stands? Wouldn't that have been the proper thing to do?

2. Why didn't they go to the monitor to check the time?

[tjchamp]

Strange Ending to Seton Hall Win - ESPN Video - ESPN

This link is much clearer, and sound is better. You can almost hear someone calling for a timeout at the same time as the whistle blows. It also looks like everyone stops moving at that point. It also looks like Pitino is getting up to get his players together for a timeout.

I think the SH kid thought a timeout was called, stepped on the court to go to his bench, then realized play was still live. So he instinctively threw the ball to the ref, who seems to be asking for it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Is the NCAA rule on boundary planes different than the NFHS?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes.

The rule is different as bob notes. I have posted on this several times in the past. Under NFHS rules the defender may break the boundary plane as soon as the throw-in pass is released, but at the NCAA level he must wait until the ball breaks the boundary plane.

[VolDoug]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The rule is different as bob notes. I have posted on this several times in the past. Under NFHS rules the defender may break the boundary plane as soon as the throw-in pass is released, but at the NCAA level he must wait until the ball breaks the boundary plane.

So under NFHS rules, if a team was using the play where the throw-in player passes to a team mate who is also OOB to make the throw-in, it would be legal for a defender to intercept that pass and toss it back onto the court?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by VolDoug

So under NFHS rules, if a team was using the play where the throw-in player passes to a team mate who is also OOB to make the throw-in, it would be legal for a defender to intercept that pass and toss it back onto the court?

Nevada said it's legal to reach across when "the throw-in pass is released." In your play, would you say that has happened?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by VolDoug

So under NFHS rules, if a team was using the play where the throw-in player passes to a team mate who is also OOB to make the throw-in, it would be legal for a defender to intercept that pass and toss it back onto the court?

Originally Posted by mbyron

Nevada said it's legal to reach across when "the throw-in pass is released." In your play, would you say that has happened?

VolDoug: A hint to answer mbyron's question -- the answer to your question is, "Of course not."

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

VolDoug: A hint to answer mbyron's question -- the answer to your question is, "Of course not."

A hint: You need to look up hint in the dictionary.