Today I snapped!

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You know how unhealthy it is to hold all of that in. It's nice that you finally vented. I'm just glad that I wasn't on the receiving end of your ripping! The last time I felt so small and all you did was look at me.

(Note: For those who don't know, several years ago I was operating the clock at the State Tournament and tomegun of was on the court. He was administering FTs and I had a lapse in concentration and hit the horn for a sub who came running to the table, before I realized that the ball had already been given to the shooter. Tomegun whistled it dead, retrieved the ball from the shooter, brought the sub in, and then gave me "the look." I wanted to crawl under the table. )

I don't remember this, but it could have happened. Sorry

[Amesman]

Sorry to switch back to the offshoot this thread took, but if some of the vets looking in could comment, it would be appreciated. As to not reaching / letting our partner live and did with calls/non-calls, how do you manage when the partner is clearly not calling enough and coach(es) are screaming for a few more whistles? Lately, it seems, I've had older (frankly) partners not interested in lingering at under level games any longer than they have to.

The real rub comes when partner passes on a handful of hacks under the basket and then if I, say, pass on marginal bumping bringing the ball up, here it comes from the bench or stands. "C'mon, you guys are killing us!" or something milder (that wouldn't warrant T). Painted with the same broad brush and not liking it. Not going to throw partner under the bus, but how do you handle a) coach -- preferably so you're not getting smeared and b) with partner (typically, though not always, a veteran guy who will be set in his ways).

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Sorry to switch back to the offshoot this thread took, but if some of the vets looking in could comment, it would be appreciated. As to not reaching / letting our partner live and did with calls/non-calls, how do you manage when the partner is clearly not calling enough and coach(es) are screaming for a few more whistles? Lately, it seems, I've had older (frankly) partners not interested in lingering at under level games any longer than they have to.

The real rub comes when partner passes on a handful of hacks under the basket and then if I, say, pass on marginal bumping bringing the ball up, here it comes from the bench or stands. "C'mon, you guys are killing us!" or something milder (that wouldn't warrant T). Painted with the same broad brush and not liking it. Not going to throw partner under the bus, but how do you handle a) coach -- preferably so you're not getting smeared and b) with partner (typically, though not always, a veteran guy who will be set in his ways).

The hilighted phrases have nothing to do with your partner. Don't let the crowd, coaches, and benches influence your opinion or dealings with partners.

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The hilighted phrases have nothing to do with your partner. Don't let the crowd, coaches, and benches influence your opinion or dealings with partners.

BNR, got that. I agree and understand (and have been around long enough that a loud mouth is not going to wilt me or change my beliefs). I guess what I was getting at was the same questions for when your partner is really just being very lazy about calling fouls/violations or is just bad this day. As a newer official, I'll take my lumps on occasion as it is; I'd rather not take any more extra than necessary if they're not at my hand. (Boy, I hope that doesn't sound self-serving.)

I guess it comes down to: At what point and how can one, in essence say, "Hey, Coach, I agree with you and wouldn't have called that a foul" or, an urge I get fairly frequently, "Hey, Coach, there's a thing called 'reaching' and I'm not going to come from out at the trail position to correct my partner on a hack he passed on right in front of him on the baseline."

[muxbule]

Originally Posted by Amesman

I guess it comes down to: At what point and how can one, in essence say, "Hey, Coach, I agree with you and wouldn't have called that a foul" or, an urge I get fairly frequently, "Hey, Coach, there's a thing called 'reaching' and I'm not going to come from out at the trail position to correct my partner on a hack he passed on right in front of him on the endline."

Fixed it for you but I digress.

I would say never. This is my line. "coach, I trust my partner and he had a better look at it then either of us."

The rest is for the locker room.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Amesman

... I'd rather not take any more extra than necessary if they're not at my hand. (Boy, I hope that doesn't sound self-serving.)

I guess it comes down to: At what point and how can one, in essence say, "Hey, Coach, I agree with you and wouldn't have called that a foul" or, an urge I get fairly frequently, "Hey, Coach, there's a thing called 'reaching' and I'm not going to come from out at the trail position to correct my partner on a hack he passed on right in front of him on the baseline."

The home team or visiting team all lose, not just the players who are having an off-night.

If one person in the crew is having a horrible game, then the whole crew goes down. There is no way of distancing yourself from that. What you do is talk to your partner(s) during times-out or intermissions and try to get everyone back on the same page.

I have heard straight from the horse's mouth how the actions/performance of one crew member prevented the entire crew from advancing past the 1st round of an NCAA tournament.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Amesman

At what point and how can one, in essence say, "Hey, Coach, I agree with you and wouldn't have called that a foul" or, an urge I get fairly frequently, "Hey, Coach, there's a thing called 'reaching' and I'm not going to come from out at the trail position to correct my partner on a hack he passed on right in front of him on the baseline."

You should never reach that point. Save it for the dressing room, not the coaches.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tomegun

He cuts me off before I finish - like he always does - and says something like, "Listen, I've been doing this for 20 years..."

You could have stopped your explanation right there, tomegun. I gotcha loud and clear now. Sounds like a snapping might be what they guy needed. And I hope you took my questions in the way they were intended - not as an attack on your actions.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Amesman

Sorry to switch back to the offshoot this thread took, but if some of the vets looking in could comment, it would be appreciated. As to not reaching / letting our partner live and did with calls/non-calls, how do you manage when the partner is clearly not calling enough and coach(es) are screaming for a few more whistles? Lately, it seems, I've had older (frankly) partners not interested in lingering at under level games any longer than they have to.

The real rub comes when partner passes on a handful of hacks under the basket and then if I, say, pass on marginal bumping bringing the ball up, here it comes from the bench or stands. "C'mon, you guys are killing us!" or something milder (that wouldn't warrant T). Painted with the same broad brush and not liking it. Not going to throw partner under the bus, but how do you handle a) coach -- preferably so you're not getting smeared and b) with partner (typically, though not always, a veteran guy who will be set in his ways).

Go back and read posts 10 and 11...they answer your question pretty well I think.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

You could have stopped your explanation right there, tomegun. I gotcha loud and clear now. Sounds like a snapping might be what they guy needed.

I hope you're right, but I doubt it. This kind of person is not really interested in improving, but merely wants credit for improving.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

You could have stopped your explanation right there, tomegun. I gotcha loud and clear now. Sounds like a snapping might be what they guy needed. And I hope you took my questions in the way they were intended - not as an attack on your actions.

No, I knew the story was a long one and if I posted more it would be obvious why I snapped at him.

This guy will not get it. I'm sure he thinks I'm the one with the problem.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tomegun

No, I knew the story was a long one and if I posted more it would be obvious why I snapped at him.

This guy will not get it. I'm sure he thinks I'm the one with the problem.

I once had to fire a pair of officials (in baseball). I was the new assignor and needed warm bodies. But the winning and losing team complained vehemently 3 weeks in a row and their stories were too consistent from team to team and week to week. Never met the guys, either. I would've loved to watch them work except I was covering a spot myself.

That was 3 years ago and I'll hopefully never assign again.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bas2456

I understand completely what you guys are saying about why I should let my partner decide whether or not to call the foul.

However, I don't completely agree with the philosophy. Maybe it's because I'm young and still pretty new at this, but my thinking is, aren't we a team out there? If I'm watching my line anyway, why should I watch just for OOB?

Evidently you don't completely understand. And yes, you are young and still pretty new at this. So, listen to what we're saying.

You have no business making that call.

Isn't it our job, as a whole, to enforce the rules of the game?

Let's change sports for a sec.

You're working the plate and a runner from first is tagged on a second base safe. The field umpire signals safe are you going to go out and call the runner out so the crew can enforce the rules of the game?

You're working referee behind the QB, when he throws a long pass into the secondary. You see the receiver is bumped but the back judge doesn't throw a flag for pass interference. Are you as the referee going to throw a flag so the crew can enforce the rules of the game?

His credibility with me was bruised anyway when he called a 3 second violation from trail when the ball was in my area. I had counted to 2.

The difference is the trail can make a 3 second call in the lane in two man. You should never make a call in the BC from the lead on the endline.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by frozenrope22

From a coaches perspective. If one referee misses a call and the other referee could/can make the call then I expect them to make the call. I don't like the "its not my call coach" response. I am not talking about every questionable call but this one seems obvious from the way you describe it.

You're missing the point, coach.

If he's blocked and can't see it, that's one thing. I'll help him.

If he sees the play and judges it not to be a foul, then I have to respect that.

And so do you because I'm not making that call.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Amesman

I guess it comes down to: At what point and how can one, in essence say, "Hey, Coach, I agree with you and wouldn't have called that a foul" or, an urge I get fairly frequently, "Hey, Coach, there's a thing called 'reaching' and I'm not going to come from out at the trail position to correct my partner on a hack he passed on right in front of him on the baseline."

You shouldn't be saying any of those things.

Do not respond to STATEMENTS. "You're guys are killing us!" does not require a response, unless you give him a stop sign and tell him you're heard enough.

If the coach asks you a question, answer it with

"Coach, I'm not looking at that play. I'm watching this matchup in front of me."

"Coach, that's his call and he didn't think it was a foul."

"I didn't see it coach, you'll have to ask him."

"That wasn't a foul, coach."

If the foul is in your area, call it.
If the FOUL!!! is in your secondary, call it.
If the foul is blocked from your partner's view, call it.
If your partner has the play in his primary and passes on it, you should too.