The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2009, 04:25am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
No, the case play doesn't fit the OP. In fact, they re two completely different scenarios.

Before the ball is live, you make sure the DQ'ed player has left the floor. It's nothing if that is done.
And if that is taking an excessive amount of time, which I would define as more than the allotted 20 seconds, then invoke 10-3-5a and whack him.

Of course, the Head Coach would earn an indirect T as well since he has already been notified of the disqualification and team member is now bench personnel.

In short, I agree with the coach who posted the OP. T was warranted here. The kid knows that he shouldn't be out there. The mechanic is to notify the coach, start the 20 second timer, and then notify the player. I'm not waiting around for him to leave.

10-3-5a: A player shall not:. . . Delay the game by acts such as:
a. Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in
play.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2009, 09:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,847
This has little to do with the OP but what level of basketball was this? I'm just curious.

Maybe I missed it, but perhaps the referee only notified the coach and not the player that he had 5 fouls. Every time I have notified a player that they have 5 fouls after notifying the coach and then getting the 20 seconds started, the player leaves the court on their own. If the player did not realize it was their 5th foul, perhaps that's why they came back on the floor. I'm not justifying anything - just might be a reason why he stayed on the court.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2009, 12:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
And if that is taking an excessive amount of time, which I would define as more than the allotted 20 seconds, then invoke 10-3-5a and whack him.

Of course, the Head Coach would earn an indirect T as well since he has already been notified of the disqualification and team member is now bench personnel.

In short, I agree with the coach who posted the OP. T was warranted here. The kid knows that he shouldn't be out there. The mechanic is to notify the coach, start the 20 second timer, and then notify the player. I'm not waiting around for him to leave.

10-3-5a: A player shall not:. . . Delay the game by acts such as:
a. Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in
play.
We don't know if A1 was informed of his fifth foul. As long as the sub reported and came onto the court as a player, I've got no T.

It sounds to me much more like an innocent mistake than a deliberate attempt to circumvent the rule. You say A1 knows he's done. I've seen plenty of kids who don't always realize situations the rest of us see as common knowledge.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2009, 12:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdw3018 View Post
It sounds to me much more like an innocent mistake than a deliberate attempt to circumvent the rule. You say A1 knows he's done. I've seen plenty of kids who don't always realize situations the rest of us see as common knowledge.
Exactly. But you'll always have those with itchy trigger fingers who want to take something out of the rule book, conform it to a situation it doesn't apply to, and whack a kid. It's .
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2009, 06:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
So since the timer isn't timing 20 seconds at this point, you start a visibile 20 second count and if you don't think he's getting off the floor fast enough, you whack him?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
The timer just did administer a 20-second replacement period. What do you think that was for? Not only does the Head Coach have to send a sub to the table, but logically, the team member with five fouls needs to depart during this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
I think Nevada is saying he's going to issue the T just as soon as the 20 second horn goes off if the team isn't on the court and ready; which isn't the rule, but.... I guess.
This isn't a time-out. The NFHS has made that point crystal clear. So only the Head Coach should be standing in the bench area and the remaining four players should remain on the court during the process. There shouldn't be any need to wait more than that 20 seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Exactly. But you'll always have those with itchy trigger fingers who want to take something out of the rule book, conform it to a situation it doesn't apply to, and whack a kid. It's .
So how long do you propose giving this team to have their disqualified player depart?
I prefer to stick with the 20 seconds that is provided in the rules book. If they go over that, then they are delaying the resumption of the game and a T is justified and supported by the rules. 10-3-5a is in the book exactly for this type of situation.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2009, 07:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
The timer just did administer a 20-second replacement period. What do you think that was for? Not only does the Head Coach have to send a sub to the table, but logically, the team member with five fouls needs to depart during this time.

So how long do you propose giving this team to have their disqualified player depart?

I prefer to stick with the 20 seconds that is provided in the rules book. If they go over that, then they are delaying the resumption of the game and a T is justified and supported by the rules. 10-3-5a is in the book exactly for this type of situation.
The coach has 20 seconds to replace the player with a sub. Did he do that? I don't think it's been addressed. It would seem to me that if he didn't a T would have been called. Since it wasn't, evidently the sub entered.

The official must inform the player that he has fouled out. Did he do that? I don't think it's been addressed. Snce the player came back on to the floor, it would seem he was not informed. Otherwise, I don't think he's coming back out.

Maybe the kid's parent came out on the floor. That would give you a chance to call two T's!
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2009, 07:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,015
Only two? I think that I could find a third in there somewhere. Afterall, this is the giving season.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2009, 07:57pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Six players on the floor does not keep the ball from being put in play. Put it in play and call that T if you want. But the jillion other times this has been discussed the consensus is always count the players, hold up 6 fingers to the coach, and proceed from there.

10-3-5 does not seem to fit here to me.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2009, 12:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
And if that is taking an excessive amount of time, which I would define as more than the allotted 20 seconds, then invoke 10-3-5a and whack him.
So since the timer isn't timing 20 seconds at this point, you start a visibile 20 second count and if you don't think he's getting off the floor fast enough, you whack him?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 24, 2009, 12:32pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
I think Nevada is saying he's going to issue the T just as soon as the 20 second horn goes off if the team isn't on the court and ready; which isn't the rule, but.... I guess.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Disqualified player Forksref Football 1 Sun Sep 03, 2006 09:43pm
disqualified player re-entering game tjlref Basketball 7 Mon Jan 30, 2006 01:21pm
Disqualified Player ThickSkin Basketball 10 Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:14am
Disqualified Player All_Heart Basketball 8 Wed Jan 04, 2006 09:45am
Disqualified player gets fouled cropduster Basketball 17 Mon Sep 29, 2003 08:19am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:48pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1