Sub not in game for disqualified player

[CMHCoachNRef]

Originally Posted by CoachJW

A1 commits an and-1 foul. Team B is at the FT line to shoot the one free throw, players are lined up. The table informs the reporting official that it was A1's fifth personal foul. Team A's coach calls his players over to talk during the 20 seconds that he has at his disposal to get his sub in the game. The 20 seconds is up, they break the huddle, and player A1 is still on the court, walking to the other end of the court to line up for the free throw.
I was Team B's coach, so I noticed he was still on the court and asked the table, "Didn't #15 foul out?" and they said yes. At that point, Team A's coach noticed that he was still on the court and got him to come back to the sideline. The officials saw this whole thing and didn't do anything, so I protested that Team A should be assessed a T or at least a DOG warning (and they had been catching the ball after it went through the net all night, and that was never called either) since they had an ineligible player on the floor after the 20 seconds. It seemed pretty clear-cut to me, and one of the officials has a great reputation locally and usually calls a pretty good game.

I didn't make a huge stink (with one T in seven years of coaching, I'm generally mild-mannered), but I wondered if people on this board would have handled it differently.

As an aside, the issue of the DOG warning on a made basket/scoring team catches the ball after it goes through the net seems inconsistent with our local referees. I'm wondering if there are guys out there who will only call that if the player catches it and throws it off to the side, taps it, etc, or if you call it any time they even touch it. Thanks and I always appreciate the responses and information I can get from the officials on the board.

Coach,
The 20 second count does NOT start until the official asks for the 20 second clock count for the DQed player.

You did not indicate in your post that the official notified the coach of the disqualification. If the coach happens to KNOW that this is the 5th foul on one of his players, he could possibly get 25 or so seconds since the 20 second period does not START until AFTER the coach has been informed of the disqualification AND the official has indicated that the 20 second timer is to start. While most HS timers are very good at the 15 second warning horn and the timing of the ready to play horn, many are NOT familiar with the 20 second disqualification clock. If the official happened to fail to notify the timer to start the 20 second timer, an additional delay could have resulted here.

You also did not indicate that an official notified the disqualified player that he was disqualified. Some players HOPE that the scorer may have made a mistake and will act as though the foul is NOT his 5th foul. Since the FTs would have been on the opposite end of the court from the bench, this combination of
1. an alert coach quickly meeting with players as soon as the whistle stopped play,
2. a player HOPING that he did not foul out,
3. a player perhaps not notified immediately by the official that he had committed his 5th foul (in some cases, it is not a matter of hope as much as lack of paying attention),
4. a timer not intimately familiar with the 20 second clock (although he should have been based on your team's previous DQ's),
and
5. a referee not in a huge hurry to get the game going (sounds like you may have had Nevadaref's brother in at least one of your prior games)

can lead to a break in the action of a bit more than 20 seconds. Hardly something worth getting upset about, in my opinion, as a coach.

REMEMBER: YOU, as the coach of the opposing team, are also allowed to use this 20 second period as a "mini timeout" AND YOU don't have to worry about getting a sub to the table in the allotted 20 seconds.