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sorry about the harshness...I'm actually very mild mannered...and not nearly as cocky as it may appear in my writing...but if somebody asks me a question...I'll give em my honest answer...my solution here works correctly 99.999% of the time...I will take responsibility for the one time in the several thousand circumstances that it wouldn't. If I have DEFINATE KNOWLEDGE that the whistle beat the horn, then the game can't possibly end.
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Funny how inexact "definite knowledge" can be.
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"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming Last edited by Back In The Saddle; Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 12:19am. |
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Our interpreter's response...
Put one second back on the clock. His position is you have definite knowledge that there is some time left. Since the clock provides no more precision than 1 second, that's what you should go with.
I don't know that he can point to a rule as the basis for this decision, but there it is. |
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And case 5.6.2D (although it complicates the situation a little with subsequent technical fouls) indicates that no time is put back on the clock. NCAA has a similar interp, except that in games with a monitor, we can put time back based on that review. |
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Well, in some ways it's not, but in others....
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If the coach calls a time out and we grant it prior to the buzzer then we know that the game is not over. We granted the time out before time had expired. How can the game be over? I suggest there is either a hole in the rules or we have to liberally (I can't believe I'm using the L word!) interpret definite knowledge. The game can't be over and so there must be some time on the clock. How much time I don't know, but the game is not over! It can't be. Put some time up on the clock and finish the game. The only other solution is to say sorry coach, game over! What happens if the visiting coach is the one who called time out and the timer let the clock run out knowing the clock doesn't show tenths of seconds? Sorry coach, I don't have definit knowledge how much time was on the clock. So since I don't have definite knowledge, game is over. That's not acceptable.
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Gwinnett Umpires Association Multicounty Softball Association Multicounty Basketball Officials Association |
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Look at case play 5.10.1 Sit. B - The ball is inbounded by A in the backcourt with 12 seconds left, A2 continues to dribble in the backcourt the official loses track of his count, and the clock expires. The ruling is the game is over. How come? If I was to do what's "fair", I would say there should've been a 10-second violation, put 2 seconds on the clock, and give the ball to B for a throw-in. But that is not what happens. Quote:
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Not according to the rules.
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) |
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We need to remember there are "dictionary" definitions and "rule book" definitions. When they don't jibe you go with the rule book definition.
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A-hole formerly known as BNR |
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definite means exact by definition!
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For those who suggest we don't put time on the clock, what are you going to do if the clock operator is biased and allows the clock to run out knowing that the clock doesn't show tenths of a second? And also knowing you can't put time on the clock if you don't have definite knowldedge. Sorry coach, you got hosed by the home team clock operator but since I don't have definite knowledge, game over. Now, what happens if this is a state championship? It could happen!
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Gwinnett Umpires Association Multicounty Softball Association Multicounty Basketball Officials Association |
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Moral: Have a count, or look at the clock in these situations. Otherwise, follow the rules. Pretty simple, actually. Whether of not we agree with them. If you don't think the rules are "fair", then work to be on the committee and change them. Otherwise, it makes it hard for those officials that come in after your game and follow the rules, and all they hear is, "The officials in the last game let us do this..." I don't think it's "fair" that a player and team should be penalized because their AD (or even a secretary) didn't order the proper uniform on time, but I don't get the option of letting it slide this time, because it's just not fair. I get paid to enforce the rules, as written. No more, no less.
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) |
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) |
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Ok,
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Visitors down by 1 after home team makes a basket. Clock operator is a homer. Visitors call time out and you grant it after time has gone below 1 second but before the buzzer sounds. Clock operator lets the clock run out. Game over? You heard the request for a time out. You granted it while there still was time on the clock, just not showing on the score board. You have definite knowledge the game is not over and that time was still on the clock. I have definite knowledge that there was less than 1 second but more than 0 seconds on the clock.
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Gwinnett Umpires Association Multicounty Softball Association Multicounty Basketball Officials Association |
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M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department. (Used with permission.) |
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My point is
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We never have definite knowlegde. Ever!
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Gwinnett Umpires Association Multicounty Softball Association Multicounty Basketball Officials Association |
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If you know for sure that the whistle beat the horn how can you not put at least 1 second back on the clock? By the time you looked at the clock there would of been some time run off, as was in this case the ears beat the eyes.
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