End of Game Situation

[BigGref]

This didn't happen to me, but I was just thinking too hard over Thanksgiving when I was looking through the case book (NFHS).

If regulation ends tied A-55 B-55, and slightly after time expires an A player or coach says something inappropriate that gets him/her a T. As you are getting ready to administer 2 FTs to B1, the scorer buzzes you over to tell you that there was a scorer's error 1 point in favor of the a) A team, or b)B team. What would you do?

Some of the principles that I know/{or think I know} are the following (in which some contradict the others);

An OT officially starts with Jump Ball, or in Disposing the ball to a team in OT.
So, has the OT period started? Will it be unneccesary for B to shoot the shots if they were already ahead before the "official" start of OT(as in situation b) )?

Open for comments/thoughts/debate about a) and b)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BigGref

If regulation ends tied A-55 B-55, and slightly after time expires an A player or coach says something inappropriate that gets him/her a T. As you are getting ready to administer 2 FTs to B1, the scorer buzzes you over to tell you that there was a scorer's error 1 point in favor of the a) A team, or b)B team. What would you do?

The bookkeeping error can be corrected up until the referee approves the final score-rule 2-11-11. Give the missed point to the appropriate team.The ball hasn't become live in the OT, so it is not mandatory that the OT will be played(casebook play 2.11.10SitD).
1)Score A-56 B-55-- Team B gets the 2 FT's for the T as if they were part of the fourth period. If B misses both, game is over and A wins. If B makes 1 out the 2, the game is tied and you play the OT. You start the OT period with a jump ball. If B makes 2 out of 2 FT's, the game is over and B wins 57-56. See rule 5-6-4 and casebook plays 2.11.10SitD and 5.6CommentB.
2)Score B-56 A-55. Game is over and B wins by that score. The A technical foul is entered in the scorebook,but the free throws for it aren't shot. Rule 5-6-3EXCEPTION.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 3rd, 2003 at 01:50 AM]

[rcwilco]

I am not 100% clear on your question, however.... If the game is tied at the end of regulation then there will be an overtime. If there is a technical after the expiration of regualtion time with a tie score then the OT will start with two shots and the same team with the ball for a throw in at the division line. You will not shoot them as part of regualtion time. If there is a difference of one or two points in the score at the end of regualtion time then you will shoot the two free throws to see if there will be a need for an OT. If so that OT will start with a jump ball, as the throw in does not carry over, casebook, p.36, 5.6 comment A.
As far as the mistake it is corrected immediately, NF rules 2-11-11 and casebook p.13, 2-11-10. If the OT had started you correct the mistake immediatley and play on. If the OT had not started but you had announced that you were going to have one I do not know what you would do. I guedss unless the T was to be shot the game is over.

[cowbyfan1]

Originally posted by rcwilco
I am not 100% clear on your question, however.... If the game is tied at the end of regulation then there will be an overtime. If there is a technical after the expiration of regualtion time with a tie score then the OT will start with two shots and the same team with the ball for a throw in at the division line. You will not shoot them as part of regualtion time. If there is a difference of one or two points in the score at the end of regualtion time then you will shoot the two free throws to see if there will be a need for an OT. If so that OT will start with a jump ball, as the throw in does not carry over, casebook, p.36, 5.6 comment A.
As far as the mistake it is corrected immediately, NF rules 2-11-11 and casebook p.13, 2-11-10. If the OT had started you correct the mistake immediatley and play on. If the OT had not started but you had announced that you were going to have one I do not know what you would do. I guedss unless the T was to be shot the game is over.

That makes no sense. If you can shoot them as part of regulation to see if the game would need to go to OT then you can shoot them to see if it doesn't. OT does not start untill the jump ball. So if a coach shoots off his mouth off in a legit tie game, then his/her opponent shoots 2. If either one is made, Ball game and y'all have a good night.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by cowbyfan1

That makes no sense. If you can shoot them as part of regulation to see if the game would need to go to OT then you can shoot them to see if it doesn't. OT does not start untill the jump ball. So if a coach shoots off his mouth off in a legit tie game, then his/her opponent shoots 2. If either one is made, Ball game and y'all have a good night.

It might not make sense, but it is correct -- at least as I read it.

Ignore the complication of the bookkeeping error. Tie game, end of fourth quarter. During the 1-minute break before the OT, Team A earns a T.

Play the OT, but start it with the throws for the T.

It's only when we don't know whether there will be OT that we shoot the FTs for the T as part of the 4th quarter. IF we already know there's going to be an OT, then we shoot them as part of the OT.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
OT does not start untill the jump ball. So if a coach shoots off his mouth off in a legit tie game, then his/her opponent shoots 2. If either one is made, Ball game and y'all have a good night.

That's not true. Once regulation ends and we're tied, the OT must be played. If a technical foul is called, it considered part of the OT. The game is not over.

[CYO Butch]

If the OT has not started, and we learn that it was really not a tied game, did the "T" not happen after the end of the game? What is done for "T" behavior after a game has ended, and how would that be any different for the scenario described when the scorekeepers error was discovered?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by CYO Butch
If the OT has not started, and we learn that it was really not a tied game, did the "T" not happen after the end of the game? What is done for "T" behavior after a game has ended, and how would that be any different for the scenario described when the scorekeepers error was discovered?

It's not treated any differently at all in the case above. If A won the game by a point, but someone from team A then got a T before the referees left the visual confines of the court, then the FT's for the T would always be shot if they could possibly make a difference in the final score. You only have OT if the score is tied after the FT's for the T are shot.

[Hawks Coach]

First, if this ever happens, no matter what you do you will have a heck of a time explaining it to any participants.

That said, I think JR has it right. If the score was really tied, we would have to play the OT starting with the T followed by an inobunds play. But in this case, the score is discovered not to be tied. Now we go to the rule that you put the point on the board for A and let B shoot the FTs for the t. This is the same as for any "time has expired, individual representing winning team acts up, refs haven't left the court" situation. And in such a case, miss both and you are done, miss one it is OT, make both and you are done (new lucky winner!).