Possible end of game situation!

jritchie · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 11:39am

Game is tied, A1 going to the basket at the end of the game, the shot is put up and missed as the horn goes off, after A1 returns to the floor, A1 is taken out by B1 with a hard foul which you could call an intentional or flagrant foul, either one) FREE THROWS ARE UPCOMING!!
** would this be free throws to win the game??? or would these be taken to start the overtime period???

blindzebra · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 11:56am

Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
Game is tied, A1 going to the basket at the end of the game, the shot is put up and missed as the horn goes off, after A1 returns to the floor, A1 is taken out by B1 with a hard foul which you could call an intentional or flagrant foul, either one) FREE THROWS ARE UPCOMING!!
** would this be free throws to win the game??? or would these be taken to start the overtime period???

At that point when the horn goes and you no longer have an airborne shooter you have a dead ball contact tech and an overtime. Free throws start the OT.

ChuckElias · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 12:02pm

If technical FT are to be shot after the horn sounds at the end of the 4th quarter:

a) If the FTs will have no impact on the outcome of the game, then the FTs are not shot.

b) If the FTs could send the game to OT (or allow the trailing team to win), then shoot the FTs as part of the 4th quarter.

c) If the score is tied at the end of the 4th quarter, then OT will be played. So shoot the FTs to begin the OT period (with no jump ball).

Camron Rust · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 12:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
Game is tied, A1 going to the basket at the end of the game, the shot is put up and missed as the horn goes off, after A1 returns to the floor, A1 is taken out by B1 with a hard foul which you could call an intentional or flagrant foul, either one) FREE THROWS ARE UPCOMING!!
** would this be free throws to win the game??? or would these be taken to start the overtime period???

Time expired, ball dead (try has ened), shooter returned to floor = 4th quarter ended. Any foul after that point is part of OT.

jritchie · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 12:21pm

What if??? "the ball is still in the air" and the horn sounds and the A1 player returns to the floor and is hit, still after the horn which ends the game...Does it matter where the ball is in respect to the shot ending??

Lotto · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 12:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
What if??? "the ball is still in the air" and the horn sounds and the A1 player returns to the floor and is hit, still after the horn which ends the game...Does it matter where the ball is in respect to the shot ending??

If the contact occurs before the shot ends (so the ball is still live), you have a personal foul. The foul is part of the 4th quarter, so you shoot the FTs as part of the 4th quarter if the score is tied or if A is behind by 1 or 2 points.

If the contact occurs after the shot ends (so the ball is dead), you have a technical foul. The foul is not part of the 4th quarter, so you only shoot FTs if A is behind by 1 or 2 points.

Penalties would be also be (slightly) different as the fouls are different types.

Interesting (to me) side note: In the latter situation, if A is down by 1, then A can win without going into OT by making both FTs. If A and B are tied, then there's OT no matter what. So it almost seems as though it's an advantage to be down 1 here...is that right?

jritchie · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 12:41pm

If the contact occurs after the shot ends (so the ball is dead), you have a technical foul. The foul is not part of the 4th quarter, so you only shoot FTs if A is behind by 1 or 2 points.

Interesting (to me) side note: In the latter situation, if A is down by 1, then A can win without going into OT by making both FTs. If A and B are tied, then there's OT no matter what. So it almost seems as though it's an advantage to be down 1 here...is that right?
[/B][/QUOTE]

if you have a technical foul, wouldn't you shoot 2 shots, no matter what, because all technical fouls are 2 shots, no matter if they are tied, down 1 or 2 points???

blindzebra · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 12:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Lotto

Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
What if??? "the ball is still in the air" and the horn sounds and the A1 player returns to the floor and is hit, still after the horn which ends the game...Does it matter where the ball is in respect to the shot ending??

If the contact occurs before the shot ends (so the ball is still live), you have a personal foul. The foul is part of the 4th quarter, so you shoot the FTs as part of the 4th quarter if the score is tied or if A is behind by 1 or 2 points.

If the contact occurs after the shot ends (so the ball is dead), you have a technical foul. The foul is not part of the 4th quarter, so you only shoot FTs if A is behind by 1 or 2 points.

Penalties would be also be (slightly) different as the fouls are different types.

Interesting (to me) side note: In the latter situation, if A is down by 1, then A can win without going into OT by making both FTs. If A and B are tied, then there's OT no matter what. So it almost seems as though it's an advantage to be down 1 here...is that right?

No, if the score difference is greater than the number of free throws game over, if it is 1 or 2 points you need to see if there will be an overtime, thus they become part of the fourth quarter.

ChuckElias · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 12:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
if you have a technical foul, wouldn't you shoot 2 shots, no matter what, because all technical fouls are 2 shots, no matter if they are tied, down 1 or 2 points???

I think I answered this earlier, so I'll repost the answer:

If technical FT are to be shot after the horn sounds at the end of the 4th quarter:

a) If the FTs will have no impact on the outcome of the game, then the FTs are not shot.

b) If the FTs could send the game to OT (or allow the trailing team to win), then shoot the FTs as part of the 4th quarter.

c) If the score is tied at the end of the 4th quarter, then OT will be played. So shoot the FTs to begin the OT period (with no jump ball).

Lotto · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 12:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra

Quote:

Originally posted by Lotto
Interesting (to me) side note: In the latter situation, if A is down by 1, then A can win without going into OT by making both FTs. If A and B are tied, then there's OT no matter what. So it almost seems as though it's an advantage to be down 1 here...is that right?

No, if the score difference is greater than the number of free throws game over, if it is 1 or 2 points you need to see if there will be an overtime, thus they become part of the fourth quarter. [/B]

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. Let me simplify the discussion to clarify what my question was. Suppose that after the 4th quarter ends, there is a technical foul assessed on B.

If the score is tied, then you start OT with the two FTs.

If A is down by 1, the FTs become part of the 4th quarter. If A makes both FTs, A wins and there's no OT.

Is that right?

ChuckElias · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 01:07pm

That's right, Lotto

jritchie · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 01:43pm

so if you are tied, you can get a "t" at the end of the game and it not cost you the game...seems like advantage to the violating team....but if you are up 1 or 2, you better not say anything because it could cost you the game...like someone said, sounds pretty crazy...

Jurassic Referee · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 01:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
so if you are tied, you can get a "t" at the end of the game and it not cost you the game...seems like advantage to the violating team....but if you are up 1 or 2, you better not say anything because it could cost you the game...like someone said, sounds pretty crazy...

NFHS rule 5-6-3 plus EXCEPTION and R5-6-4.

Nevadaref · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 10:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Lotto

Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
What if??? "the ball is still in the air" and the horn sounds and the A1 player returns to the floor and is hit, still after the horn which ends the game...Does it matter where the ball is in respect to the shot ending??

If the contact occurs before the shot ends (so the ball is still live), you have a personal foul. The foul is part of the 4th quarter, so you shoot the FTs as part of the 4th quarter if the score is tied or if A is behind by 1 or 2 points.

That is if you award these FTs at all. In this specific case, (try has not ended = live ball and personal foul, but the shooter has returned to the floor before being fouled, means no airborne shooter = non-shooting foul, the FTs are only awarded if the offended team is in the bonus.

Lotto · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Oct 21, 2004, 05:41am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Quote:

Originally posted by Lotto

Quote:

Originally posted by jritchie
What if??? "the ball is still in the air" and the horn sounds and the A1 player returns to the floor and is hit, still after the horn which ends the game...Does it matter where the ball is in respect to the shot ending??

If the contact occurs before the shot ends (so the ball is still live), you have a personal foul. The foul is part of the 4th quarter, so you shoot the FTs as part of the 4th quarter if the score is tied or if A is behind by 1 or 2 points.

That is if you award these FTs at all. In this specific case, (try has not ended = live ball and personal foul, but the shooter has returned to the floor before being fouled, means no airborne shooter = non-shooting foul, the FTs are only awarded if the offended team is in the bonus.

...or (as in the original case) the foul is intentional or flagrant.