Some help. AUU tourney situation

[TRef21]

Today I was working an AAU Tourney, which I barley do. I was doing it as a favor for the once " friend" that was assigning. I was scheduled to work 3 games and only worked one, before being pulled off the last 2. Here is what happened:

On Saturday, my partner who I worked with again today where working the game which the host AAU team was playing. They had this one no.24 who was a hell of a player but had a bad bad bad attitude. He would complain about every call that was made on him, and felt that he could do no wrong. After a call in the first half my partner dinged him for, the kid said something so he gets stuck. Later in the second half as we are lining up for Ft's no. 24 tells one his players to " Chin Check" the other guy. I told the kid why are you telling him to chin check him. No. 24 responed, ref you don't even no what a chin check is. I was like you know, I'm older than you and know what it is and don't tell your teammate that. Now you are on the edge.

So with a minute left his team is down by 2. no. 3 black fouls and we are in the bonus. As we are lining up for ft's, no.3 black starts saying things about the call and I was like, " What did you say"? He was like nothing ref, I said thats right you said nothing. So now other guys are complaining and no. 24 is still talking when it doesn't even relate to him. I was like you know something guys ( to both teams), you guys aren't in the NBA and not that great yet, so stop complaining. No. 24 now pops off again and still won't stop. I was like now you are borderline. Still won't be quiet and keeps ranting and raving, so my partner and I at the same blow the whistles and ding him. I tech him, pitch him, and his team loses by 5.

After the game his coach was like no 24. said you told him to his face that he was sorry. I was like coach why would I tell a player that he was a sorry player. I'm more professional than that. He was like I have known you for a couple of years, and I know the kid doesn't lie. I was like you know coach you know I'm more professional than that, and I never told him that.

So this morning scheduling to do 3 championship games, my partner the same from Saturday, got pulled off after our first one. The assigner, said that the admin. is still upset about what happened and don't want you two working. So the assigner came in with his partner and they work the two games remaining. So I'm pissed! Not about the situation but how the assigner handled it. A guy we both thought that was our friend pulls us off 2 AAU games because admin. is mad. He stabbed us in the back.

As an assigner aren't you supposed to have the officials back? So what if they are pissed, let us work, but don't pull us off. I told the assigner i wasn't going to do any more favors for him (like this tourney) and just stick to my college ball ( since he assigns during the season and what not), and this is absolute B.S. You are supposed to have our backs. I see where we stand. I do that right thing and pitch kid after being more than generous with warnings after the first tech and we get screwed. See we don't do the right thing we lose control of the game and something happens and we get screwed. We do that right thing and we still get screwed ( in my situation). What is your guys take on my situation.

What do you guys think about the situation

[Mark Padgett]

I'm like baffled.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by TRef21

like...like...like...like...like...like...like...l ike...like...like

Mark Padgett: I like agree.

Wait. I like made a mistake.

Originally Posted by TRef21

like...like...like...like...like...like...like...l ike...like...

No problem with "(like this tourney)".

[Nevadaref]

I think that you don't display very much professionalism or maturity on the court. You are confrontational with the players and probably cause most of the situations that end up in technical fouls and ejections.

Plus, I seriously hope that your officiating is better than your writing skills because the entire passage reads as if a fifth-grader is telling the story.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by TRef21

1) They had this one no.24 who was a hell of a player but had a bad bad bad attitude. He would complain about every call that was made on him, and felt that he could do no wrong. After a call in the first half my partner dinged him for, the kid said something so he gets stuck. Later in the second half as we are lining up for Ft's no. 24 tells one his players to " Chin Check" the other guy. I told the kid why are you telling him to chin check him. No. 24 responded, ref you don't even no what a chin check is. I was like you know, I'm older than you and know what it is and don't tell your teammate that. Now you are on the edge.

So with a minute left his team is down by 2. no. 3 black fouls and we are in the bonus. As we are lining up for ft's, no.3 black starts saying things about the call and I was like, " What did you say"? He was like nothing ref, I said thats right you said nothing. So now other guys are complaining and no. 24 is still talking when it doesn't even relate to him. I was like you know something guys ( to both teams), you guys aren't in the NBA and not that great yet, so stop complaining. No. 24 now pops off again and still won't stop. I was like now you are borderline. Still won't be quiet and keeps ranting and raving, so my partner and I at the same blow the whistles and ding him. I tech him, pitch him, and his team loses by 5.

2) The assigner, said that the admin. is still upset about what happened and don't want you two working. So the assigner came in with his partner and they work the two games remaining.

What do you guys think about the situation

1) Way, way too much talking and not enough doing on your part. Why should the players listen to you? You warned them- multi times- and then you failed to follow up on those warnings. The idea is that you give ONE warning only and then follow up on it. All you have to do is say "that's enough" and then just whack 'em if they don't listen.

2) Your assignor was completely wrong, if he took you off those games because of the reasons that you laid out. If he did so because you let the players get away with too much crap(which you did), I maybe could believe it.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by TRef21

Today I was working an AAU Tourney, which I barley do. I was doing it as a favor for the once " friend" that was assigning. I was scheduled to work 3 games and only worked one, before being pulled off the last 2. Here is what happened:

On Saturday, my partner who I worked with again today where working the game which the host AAU team was playing. They had this one no.24 who was a hell of a player but had a bad bad bad attitude. He would complain about every call that was made on him, and felt that he could do no wrong. After a call in the first half my partner dinged him for, the kid said something so he gets stuck. Later in the second half as we are lining up for Ft's no. 24 tells one his players to " Chin Check" the other guy. I told the kid why are you telling him to chin check him. No. 24 responed, ref you don't even no what a chin check is. I was like you know, I'm older than you and know what it is and don't tell your teammate that. Now you are on the edge.

So with a minute left his team is down by 2. no. 3 black fouls and we are in the bonus. As we are lining up for ft's, no.3 black starts saying things about the call and I was like, " What did you say"? He was like nothing ref, I said thats right you said nothing. So now other guys are complaining and no. 24 is still talking when it doesn't even relate to him. I was like you know something guys ( to both teams), you guys aren't in the NBA and not that great yet, so stop complaining. No. 24 now pops off again and still won't stop. I was like now you are borderline. Still won't be quiet and keeps ranting and raving, so my partner and I at the same blow the whistles and ding him. I tech him, pitch him, and his team loses by 5.

After the game his coach was like no 24. said you told him to his face that he was sorry. I was like coach why would I tell a player that he was a sorry player. I'm more professional than that. He was like I have known you for a couple of years, and I know the kid doesn't lie. I was like you know coach you know I'm more professional than that, and I never told him that.

So this morning scheduling to do 3 championship games, my partner the same from Saturday, got pulled off after our first one. The assigner, said that the admin. is still upset about what happened and don't want you two working. So the assigner came in with his partner and they work the two games remaining. So I'm pissed! Not about the situation but how the assigner handled it. A guy we both thought that was our friend pulls us off 2 AAU games because admin. is mad. He stabbed us in the back.

As an assigner aren't you supposed to have the officials back? So what if they are pissed, let us work, but don't pull us off. I told the assigner i wasn't going to do any more favors for him (like this tourney) and just stick to my college ball ( since he assigns during the season and what not), and this is absolute B.S. You are supposed to have our backs. I see where we stand. I do that right thing and pitch kid after being more than generous with warnings after the first tech and we get screwed. See we don't do the right thing we lose control of the game and something happens and we get screwed. We do that right thing and we still get screwed ( in my situation). What is your guys take on my situation.

What do you guys think about the situation

Dude, this is AAU a perfect time to pitch a player for the smallest thing. Just because its summer ball does not mean you do not treat it as if it's not regular season. I'm a firm believer, if you let crap like this happen in the summer you will let it happen in the regular season. IMO, you can't just turn the switch on and off whenever you get ready. Carry yourself in the summer, like you will carry yourself in the regualar season.

[TRef21]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I think that you don't display very much professionalism or maturity on the court. You are confrontational with the players and probably cause most of the situations that end up in technical fouls and ejections.

Plus, I seriously hope that your officiating is better than your writing skills because the entire passage reads as if a fifth-grader is telling the story.

Yes my officiating is better than my writing skills. You state that I'm confrontational with the players and probably cause most of the situations that end up in technical fouls and ejections. So if you were in the situation I was in and heard that player say what he said during the game you would do nothing? My partner assessed the first technical, I had two opportunities which warranted a 2nd technical foul and warned the player before acting. I don't understand how that is unprofessional or shows that I lack maturity on the court. I don't understand how telling a player that he is on the edge/borderline is confrontational. Can you please elaborate on your statement so I can grow from this experience and learn from my fellow colleagues in the forum?

[TRef21]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

1) Way, way too much talking and not enough doing on your part. Why should the players listen to you? You warned them- multi times- and then you failed to follow up on those warnings. The idea is that you give ONE warning only and then follow up on it. All you have to do is say "that's enough" and then just whack 'em if they don't listen.

2) Your assignor was completely wrong, if he took you off those games because of the reasons that you laid out. If he did so because you let the players get away with too much crap(which you did), I maybe could believe it.

1. I agree. This was a very long story that I wrote out for you guys.

2. After talking with the assigner, he said it was not because we let too much crap go. It was indeed the reasons which I laid out. I agree with the one warning. You know dealing with freshman basketball players, I wanted to try to at least talk the kid out of doing something dumb. I haven't worked that level for about 2 yrs. You know dealing with big guys at the varsity and college level, you talk to them once, they usually get the idea. Then if they get stuck with one, the coach usually pulls them out or screams at them. I guess was too nice with this one. Do you have anymore feedback in which I can use, to better myself when a situation arises like this again?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by TRef21

Yes my officiating is better than my writing skills. You state that I'm confrontational with the players and probably cause most of the situations that end up in technical fouls and ejections. So if you were in the situation I was in and heard that player say what he said during the game you would do nothing? My partner assessed the first technical, I had two opportunities which warranted a 2nd technical foul and warned the player before acting. I don't understand how that is unprofessional or shows that I lack maturity on the court. I don't understand how telling a player that he is on the edge/borderline is confrontational. Can you please elaborate on your statement so I can grow from this experience and learn from my fellow colleagues in the forum?

Here's your problem. The first T was the warning. The second one gets rid of the problem. If he mouths off from the bench, then indirects accrue to the coach and he will be gone, too.

[JRutledge]

It is really hard to say what should or should not have been done by the story. I will admit that I talk more during any summer or off season league because the consequences of the penalties are not always the same. You are often not dealing with the type of coaches that will control their kids and giving a T in AAU does not automatically solve all problems. I would suggest that you stay away from all the conversation until you know how to control the situation with your words better. At this time it is clear that either you have not grasped that skill completely (sometimes takes years) or you just need to take care of business.

What the assignor did might not have been the best way to handle the situation, but that does not make them not within their right to do so. I agree that it might not be fair, but in AAU assignments a lot of things are not done the same as the regular season. I would either talk to the assignor what happen or just not help them out in the future. You do not have to make that issue public or known; just do not return phone calls or emails. And you cannot be booked when you ordinarily would have been available if the situation bothers you enough.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by TRef21

I don't understand how telling a player that he is on the edge/borderline is confrontational. Can you please elaborate on your statement so I can grow from this experience and learn from my fellow colleagues in the forum?

,,,,,no.3 black starts saying things about the call and I was like, " What did you say"

No. 24 responded, ref you don't even no what a chin check is. I was like you know, I'm older than you and know what it is

These two exchanges could certainly be considered confrontational.

[CLH]

T-Dawg,

There's a reason they call you "Tommygun" use it!!! Like I said when you called me, you gave to much rope. Give him #2 and send him to the house. Yeah, some of your comments were a bit confrontational, but hey it happens. Grow from that, and always remember "Silence can't be quoted."

I've found that every time I've tried to be nice and give a player some rope, I end up hanging myself. I've ended up flinging more techs than I would have if I had just given the first one. I don't do that anymore. If its there, I call it. If that makes me a hothead then I'm a hothead.

As for your assignor, unfortunately sometimes its easier just say "I give up" and pull you guys and hope you'll forgive him. Problem is, we alienate our own at that point. It completely undermines your authority and makes you feel about 2 feet tall, but there's really nothing you can do. I ejected a tournament director who had a team playing one time. It took 2 hours to get my money and I haven't worked there since, but I knew I was right.

So, chin up big dawg, this ain't the end of the world. Just be a jerk like me and start flinging techs with no warnings, you'll be fine!!!!

CLH

[TRef21]

Originally Posted by CLH

So, chin up big dawg, this ain't the end of the world. Just be a jerk like me and start flinging techs with no warnings, you'll be fine!!!!

CLH

True. It's not the end of the world. I have too many good things in officiating right now, that this something that I really don't need to fuss about. I'm just looking for ways to handle different situations. I was talking to my D1 buddy today and told him basically everything I posted. He was like you were right in pitching him. This is something that's covered in the book (unsportsmanlike conduct, etc). He said in officiating that's the way it is. You do something wrong you get in trouble, you do something right you still get in trouble. There is no middle ground. In the next few years it's just going to keep getting worse. He just said, in those types of situation just be careful with techs and whatnot, since officiating is changing everyday.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by TRef21

Yes my officiating is better than my writing skills. You state that I'm confrontational with the players and probably cause most of the situations that end up in technical fouls and ejections. So if you were in the situation I was in and heard that player say what he said during the game you would do nothing? My partner assessed the first technical, I had two opportunities which warranted a 2nd technical foul and warned the player before acting. I don't understand how that is unprofessional or shows that I lack maturity on the court. I don't understand how telling a player that he is on the edge/borderline is confrontational. Can you please elaborate on your statement so I can grow from this experience and learn from my fellow colleagues in the forum?

Tommy,
JAR selected a couple of instances from your story that would serve as examples of you being confrontational towards the players. More generally, as JR mentioned, you engaged in way too much banter with the young men in this game. That kind of back and forth only brings you down to their level. What you want from any verbal communication is not only for them to comply with your instructions, but also for the players to respect you as an authority figure and the job that you are doing for them. Since they don't know you from prior experiences, this has to develop from what they see from you during the game. Part of that is conveyed through your effort, hustle, and the quality of your decisions, but another and rather large component of their opinion of you comes from how you treat them.

In your comment about them not being in the NBA, you directly insulted the players. After that you certainly cannot expect them to react positively to you.
In my statement about your writing skills, I was intentionally insulting as I was attempting to provoke a response from you which I could then use to illustrate my point about how people react when insulted. Amazingly, you elected to reply in a very cordial manner and thusly ruined my planned example. Good for you. Perhaps you are more mature than your recounting of this AAU game led me to believe.

Unfortunately, from reading your post I got the impression that you were almost bragging about putting these players in their place as it seemed to be nearly overflowing with machismo. From your point of view you obviously felt that your interaction with these players was justified when they challenged you. While to an outside observer your behavior would most likely to be judged to have been a part of the problem. I would like you to take a few moments and try to mentally place yourself in the stands watching the interaction that occurred between the players and officials in this contest. What would your thoughts be upon hearing the words exchanged?

It's late and I just finished working an AAU tournament this weeked myself (by coincidence I happened to work the championship game) so I need some rest, but I will try to share what I would have done in your place tomorrow.

[TRef21]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Tommy,
JAR selected a couple of instances from your story that would serve as examples of you being confrontational towards the players. More generally, as JR mentioned, you engaged in way too much banter with the young men in this game. That kind of back and forth only brings you down to their level. What you want from any verbal communication is not only for them to comply with your instructions, but also for the players to respect you as an authority figure and the job that you are doing for them. Since they don't know you from prior experiences, this has to develop from what they see from you during the game. Part of that is conveyed through your effort, hustle, and the quality of your decisions, but another and rather large component of their opinion of you comes from how you treat them.

In your comment about them not being in the NBA, you directly insulted the players. After that you certainly cannot expect them to react positively to you.
In my statement about your writing skills, I was intentionally insulting as I was attempting to provoke a response from you which I could then use to illustrate my point about how people react when insulted. Amazingly, you elected to reply in a very cordial manner and thusly ruined my planned example. Good for you. Perhaps you are more mature than your recounting of this AAU game led me to believe.

Unfortunately, from reading your post I got the impression that you were almost bragging about putting these players in their place as it seemed to be nearly overflowing with machismo. From your point of view you obviously felt that your interaction with these players was justified when they challenged you. While to an outside observer your behavior would most likely to be judged to have been a part of the problem. I would like you to take a few moments and try to mentally place yourself in the stands watching the interaction that occurred between the players and officials in this contest. What would your thoughts be upon hearing the words exchanged?

It's late and I just finished working an AAU tournament this weeked myself (by coincidence I happened to work the championship game) so I need some rest, but I will try to share what I would have done in your place tomorrow.

Good stuff Nevada. I'm off to bed myself. I will certainly sleep on what you said. I never thought about that. I'm looking forward to your feedback. By the way I apologize for screwing up your example.