time put back on the clock??

[Back In The Saddle]

There does seem to be some ambiguity between 5-6-2 Ex. 3 and 5-10. The exception still seems to allow for lag time, a concept that was supposedly removed a couple of years ago. While 5-10-1 allows the official to put back on the exact time that was observed and 5-8-1 indicates that the clock is to stop when the official signals to stop the clock.

To my feeble mind, I believe the only way to bring order to these seemingly conflicting rules is by prioritizing. And the priority, to my way of thinking, is that if we have definite knowledge of the time that was on the clock when the signal was given, that time should be placed back on the clock. If the exact time is not known, and the timer was unable to stop the clock before time expired, then we live with the time expiring.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

There does seem to be some ambiguity between 5-6-2 Ex. 3 and 5-10. The exception still seems to allow for lag time, a concept that was supposedly removed a couple of years ago. While 5-10-1 allows the official to put back on the exact time that was observed and 5-8-1 indicates that the clock is to stop when the official signals to stop the clock.

The rules don't conflict. They're different rules for different situations.

Rule 5-10-1 is only used when there is a timer's mistake.....i.e the timer stopped the clock wrongly.

Rule 5-6-2EXCEPTION covers a very specific situation only(the end of a period) and is only applicable if the timer hasn't made a mistake in stopping the clock. Case book pay 5.6.2SitG confirms that.

Apples and oranges...and different rules for different situations.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The rules don't conflict. They're different rules for different situations.

Rule 5-10-1 is only used when there is a timer's mistake.....i.e the timer stopped the clock wrongly.

Rule 5-6-2EXCEPTION covers a very specific situation only(the end of a period) and is only applicable if the timer hasn't made a mistake in stopping the clock. Case book pay 5.6.2SitG confirms that.

Apples and oranges...and different rules for different situations.

And wrongly is anytime it stops at a point after a time observed once the whistle has blown.

If the whistle blows and then the horn blows so quickly after that noone sees a time or there is no difference in the time seen, that is the point of 5-6-2Ex.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And wrongly is anytime it stops at a point after a time observed once the whistle has blown.

If the whistle blows and then the horn blows so quickly after that noone sees a time or there is no difference in the time seen, that is the point of 5-6-2Ex.

Disagree completely. That is NOT what R5-6-2EXCEPTION3 says. Case book play 5.6.2SitG completely disagrees with you also. If you were right, the difference from the time when the whistle was blown for the foul to the end of the period would be put back on the clock in both the EXCEPTION and the case play. It isn't!

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Case book play 5.6.2SitG completely disagrees with you also. If you were right, the difference from the time when the whistle was blown for the foul to the end of the period would be put back on the clock in the case play. It isn't!

I have agreed with you up to this point, but this case makes no mention of anyone seeing any amount of time, before, at, or after the official's signal, so how is it applicable here?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I have agreed with you up to this point, but this case makes no mention of anyone seeing any amount of time, before, at, or after the official's signal, so how is it applicable here?

In fact, the rule and case cited don't even mention the whistle...the only thing mentioned is the infraction occurring and time expiring. If anything is to be assumed, it would be that the official's reaction in blowing the whistle was such that the horn sounded before or simultaneous with the whistle....in that case, no time restored since there had been no signal to indicate that the clock should stop.

Every new interpretation offered with the removal of lag time says that the time seen on the clock once the whistle is blown is restored to the clock. There is no distinction between 0.1 second and 2.0 seconds. If you see it, you put it back. Before, you'd only put it back if the delta were greater than 1 second. That's all that changed. You're suggesting that there is still some threshhold where you don't put it back.


Let's assume you (Jurrassic) are right. How much time does it take before you'd put something back??? How much time must you observe on the clock before it is not "so near" that you'll put it back?

You're not going to reply, I know, because you won't be able to post an answer that has any backing. If you do reply with a number, you'll be completely making it up.

Imagine the whistle blows at 2.0 and everyone sees 2.0 but the timer drops the handheld switchbox and can't get it stopped for 2 seconds. According to you, since the timer stopped it as fast as they could (there is no mention in the rule of exceptions to the exception), no adjustment can be made. Of course, this is preposterous.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Every new interpretation offered with the removal of lag time says that the time seen on the clock once the whistle is blown is restored to the clock. There is no distinction between 0.1 second and 2.0 seconds. If you see it, you put it back. Before, you'd only put it back if the delta were greater than 1 second. That's all that changed. You're suggesting that there is still some threshhold where you don't put it back.


Let's assume you (Jurrassic) are right. How much time does it take before you'd put something back??? How much time must you observe on the clock before it is not "so near" that you'll put it back?

You're not going to reply, I know, because you won't be able to post an answer that has any backing. If you do reply with a number, you'll be completely making it up.

Imagine the whistle blows at 2.0 and everyone sees 2.0 but the timer drops the handheld switchbox and can't get it stopped for 2 seconds. According to you, since the timer stopped it as fast as they could (there is no mention in the rule of exceptions to the exception), no adjustment can be made. Of course, this is preposterous.

What's preposterous is this much arguing about two tenths of a second. Two tenths. Not two seconds. I don't know what the threshold is, but it's sure greater than two tenths of a second. In the OP the time told the refs AFTER the shots were taken that she had seen two tenths. I'm doubting that. And the game is over. No rules basis to do anything else.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Let's assume you (Jurrassic) are right. How much time does it take before you'd put something back??? How much time must you observe on the clock before it is not "so near" that you'll put it back?

You're not going to reply, I know, because you won't be able to post an answer that has any backing. If you do reply with a number, you'll be completely making it up.

Imagine the whistle blows at 2.0 and everyone sees 2.0 but the timer drops the handheld switchbox and can't get it stopped for 2 seconds. According to you, since the timer stopped it as fast as they could (there is no mention in the rule of exceptions to the exception), no adjustment can be made. Of course, this is preposterous.

I posted the answer and the rules citations that back it that answer. Unfortunately, you don't have a clue what I'm talking about, as usual.

You can put time back on the clock ONLY if the timer makes a MISTAKE. That's rule 5-10. If the timer DOESN'T make a MISTAKE, there is NO rule in the book that will allow you to put time back on the clock. If you think differently, and you obviously do, then cite a rule...any rule...that will allow an official to put time back on the clock when there hasn't been a timing mistake.

The play that you detailed above is a timer's MISTAKE! It has got absolutely nothing to do with the play being discussed. In the play being discussed, there was NO timer's mistake.

And when you get a chance, maybe you can also explain why no time is put back on the clock in case book 5.6.2SitG. In that play, the foul occurred BEFORE the ball was in flight and time expired AFTER the ball was in flight. That's why 5-6-2EXCEPTION3 is in the rule book.

I gave you the applicable rules citation. Now see if you you can find a rule...any rule... that will allow an official to put time back on the clock when the timer hasn't made a mistake. I await your reply.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Imagine the whistle blows at 2.0 and everyone sees 2.0 but the timer drops the handheld switchbox and can't get it stopped for 2 seconds. According to you, since the timer stopped it as fast as they could (there is no mention in the rule of exceptions to the exception), no adjustment can be made. Of course, this is preposterous.

You're the one that's being preposterous here, Camron. Of course this is EXACTLY the kind of timing mistake that needs fixing. This hypothetical is completely irrelevant to the OP.