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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 02:33pm
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time put back on the clock??

Okay had a BV game last night. I know the situation wasn't handled correctly, but I want to get it right next time. Team A is fouled during a shot, the basket counts, so we're going to shoot the "and 1" free throw. The made basket puts team A up by 1 point. There is 6 secs to go on the clock (the clock does not have tenths of a second on the score board) (Both teams are in the double bonus.)

A1 misses the "and 1" free throw, B1 grabs the rebound and dribbles the length of the floor, as B1 is dribbling down the floor, A2 literally runs over B1 and knocks him to the ground. My partner Trail (referee) calls a common foul, the whistle sounds "tweet", the horn goes off "Buzzz". We have a conference.

Neither myself or my 2 partners have definite knowledge of how much time was on the clock when the whistle sounded, because there is no tenths on the clock, as soon as I heard the whistle I look up, and the clock shows 0:00 then "buzz" goes the horn. We line up B1 to shoot two shots with no one lined up along the lane, and no time on the clock, he drains both free throws. Team B wins by 1.

That's what should have happened right????

Now here is where I know my partner (Referee and the Trail who called the common foul) messes up...

Myself and U2 are running off the floor. After B1 makes his 2nd free throw. Game should be over. When we hear "Tweet Tweet Tweet" The Referee calls us over and says he's putting .2 seconds on the clock, because the the score/time keeper says on his score board control box at the table there is tenths of seconds, and when the whistle sounded there was .2 seconds left. But he couldn't stop the clock that fast.

Well Crap I say, we shot the double bonus free throws with neither team lined up. What if he'd missed the 2nd freethrow. The Referee says, he made both free throws. Give A the ball OOB under B's basket with the freedom to move and .2 on the timer's box. A throws the ball full court deflected game over.

What should have been done?
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 02:41pm
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I think there's a rule somewhere that says that if the timer's response to a situation is within a certain allowable amount, you don't put time back on the clock just to make up for reaction time. I can't find a cite at the moment, but I'll keep looking. BUt I think you should NOT have put any time back on the clock.

I think 5-6-2 exception 3 is the applicable rule.

Last edited by rainmaker; Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:44pm.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 02:43pm
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.3 is the least amount of time remaining where a player can get a tap off.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 02:45pm
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Shoot the freethrows with the lane cleared (only if it will affect outcome of the game).

You can't add time onto the clock unless you have definite knowledge.

Julie, I think you're talking about lag time, that was deleted from the rulebook either last year or the year before.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 02:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town
.3 is the least amount of time remaining where a player can get a tap off.
Rules to back this up?
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 02:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake~eyes
Shoot the freethrows with the lane cleared (only if it will affect outcome of the game).

You can't add time onto the clock unless you have definite knowledge.
Doesn't the timer's knowledge amount to "definite" knowledge?
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 02:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ch1town
.3 is the least amount of time remaining where a player can get a tap off.
I'm trying to understand what you are saying? I know the rule about .3 secs, but what does that have to do with this situation. I'm just trying to see what you mean?
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 02:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Doesn't the timer's knowledge amount to "definite" knowledge?
Yes.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 02:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moshiner1345
I'm trying to understand what you are saying? I know the rule about .3 secs, but what does that have to do with this situation. I'm just trying to see what you mean?
Me too, my badd.
It is .3 or less

Last edited by Ch1town; Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 02:59pm.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 02:56pm
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There are still a few schools left, @ least around our way, that doesn't have tenths on the clock. Its imperative @ these schools to see if they do have tenths that show on the timing console. If they do, its wise to implore the timer in the last second of a period to help if there happens to be a timing issue.

In the OP's play I really don't have a problem with putting .2 back on the clock if the timer is positive that he/she seen it on the console when the whistle blew.

Technically if the whistle was before the horn, the foul was before the whistle, so it stands to reason that their should be some time on the clock. Since the tenths doesn't show on the clock then your only way of getting definitive knowledge would be by the timer who can see tenths on the console.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 03:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake~eyes
Yes.
So then why don't you think the FTs should have been shot with .2 seconds & players lined up as normal?

btw, I'm with Gimlet but will take it a step further. The R in this game screwed it up because he waited until after the FTs to make his ruling. He should have resolved the timing issue prior to the FTs.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 03:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimlet25id
Technically if the whistle was before the horn, the foul was before the whistle, so it stands to reason that their should be some time on the clock. Since the tenths doesn't show on the clock then your only way of getting definitive knowledge would be by the timer who can see tenths on the console.
Okay here is my question, We shot the 2 free throws with the lane cleared under the impression that no time existed on the clock. Then after the two made baskets, the timer tells the Referee there was .2 secs left on his (timer's) score board control box. What do we do then. There is Definite knowledge by the timer that .2 secs existed.

Do we just give it to team A for the throw in with .2 secs,
Or
Do we cancel the free throws B just made, line the guys up, and shoot two more?

That's where I get confused...
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 03:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
The R in this game screwed it up because he waited until after the FTs to make his ruling. He should have resolved the timing issue prior to the FTs.
I agree totally with this. I bet though that until this situation presented itself the "R" or the "U" didn't have any idea that the console displayed tenths.

The best time for the "R" to head this type of a problem off would be in the pre game table conference. This would be the time to fin out if the clock shows tenths, if it doesn't then does the console?
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 03:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moshiner1345
Okay here is my question, We shot the 2 free throws with the lane cleared under the impression that no time existed on the clock. Then after the two made baskets, the timer tells the Referee there was .2 secs left on his (timer's) score board control box. What do we do then. There is Definite knowledge by the timer that .2 secs existed.

Do we just give it to team A for the throw in with .2 secs,
Or
Do we cancel the free throws B just made, line the guys up, and shoot two more?

That's where I get confused...
Put .2 on the clock and go POI. No way to cancel a merited free throw unless the throws were attempted by the wrong shooter.
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Old Fri Feb 15, 2008, 03:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_ref
Doesn't the timer's knowledge amount to "definite" knowledge?
I don't have my rule book in front of me to cite a specific rule, but I believe "definite knowledge" pertains only to the officials on the court, and not any people working the table.
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