time put back on the clock??

[Moshiner1345]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

Put .2 on the clock and go POI. No way to cancel a merited free throw unless the throws were attempted by the wrong shooter.

Say he missed the 2nd free throw... The POI is... alternating possession?

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by ma_ref

I don't have my rule book in front of me to cite a specific rule, but I believe "definite knowledge" pertains only to the officials on the court, and not any people working the table.

Nope!! Theres a couple of case plays where you can get information from the timer to correct a timing mistake. If the timer knows, hes a part of our crew, his information is definite.

5.10.1

[bob jenkins]

I would have let it go (that is, end the game with the FTs) and not put any time back on the clock. There was no obvious timing error.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Moshiner1345

Say he missed the 2nd free throw... The POI is... alternating possession?

If he misses then AP would be the only way to continue. Obviously I think we can agree that this was done azz backwards!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Moshiner1345

Do we cancel the free throws B just made, line the guys up, and shoot two more?

That's where I get confused...

Let's get rid of some of your confusion. You can never (NEVER) cancel FTs & replay in this sitch.

The only guidance I know of comes from the ncaa, rule 5 section 11

Section 11. Timing Mistakes and Malfunctions
The following articles pertain to mistakes and malfunctions in games played without a replay/television equipment. For timing mistakes and malfunctions in games with replay/television equipment, see Rule 2-13.
Art. 1. When an obvious timing mistake has occurred because of the failure to start or stop the game clock properly, the mistake shall be corrected only when the referee has definite information relative to the time involved. Such a mistake shall be corrected during the first dead ball but before the next/second live ball is touched inbounds or out of bounds by a player other than the thrower-in.

It was too late for the R to fix this, at least by ncaa rules.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I would have let it go (that is, end the game with the FTs) and not put any time back on the clock. There was no obvious timing error.

I would have to agree with Bob on this one. However if the "R" is making a big enough deal about putting .2 back on then I'm saying by rule he can.

[Moshiner1345]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

If he misses then AP would be the only way to continue. Obviously I think we can agree that this was done azz backwards!

I agree. The situation was a mess. The whole night was a mess. Our Scheduled third didn't show, so The AD called the Middle school AD (the school was a few blocks away) and had one of the 6th grade officials come from the middle school to complete the crew.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

I would have to agree with Bob on this one. However if the "R" is making a big enough deal about putting .2 back on then I'm saying by rule he can.

What rule?

Rainmaker gave the applicable rule-- rule 5-6-2EXCEPTION3. Bob Jenkins was correct. There was no timing error. The timer simply couldn't stop the clock before time expired. There's no rules basis that I'm aware of under NFHS rules that will allow you to put time back on the clock. There's no monitor to use--like NCAA rules.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Ch1town

.3 is the least amount of time remaining where a player can get a tap off.

Wrong. The only applicable rule is that the ball must in the air on a tap before the horn goes for a basket to count. See case book play 5.2.5SitB. There is no minimum time for a tap, including a tap on a throw-in.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

What rule?

Rainmaker gave the applicable rule-- rule 5-6-2EXCEPTION3. Bob Jenkins was correct. There was no timing error. The timer simply couldn't stop the clock before time expired. There's no rules basis that I'm aware of under NFHS rules that will allow you to put time back on the clock. There's no monitor to use--like NCAA rules.

I agree that I wouldn't have done anything on this other then shoot the throws and leave. However I think the rule book would back up either situation.

5-6-2 Ex. 3 would back up calling it and leaving and Rule 5-10-1 in addition to applying Case play 5.10.1 Sit. D would back the ruling to add .2 back to the clock since it would be exact time observed by the timer which is also considered definitive knowledge.

In my game I'm calling it and leaving. In the OP's play the rule book would back the "R" up by putting up .2 and playing on.

[Big2Cat]

Almost every box I have had at games displays tenths of a second. Twice this year the clock has showed zero with no horn and the scoreboard does not show tenths. I just calmly walk over to the table and ask if they have tenths on the box. They do and tell me. .9 in one game, .2 in the other. I then informed my partners and my coaches and we went from there.

We should all know this and be ready to check the table. I do think if the timer saw .2 then he had definite knowledge. The time to ask is before the free throws, not after. Although it sounds like since he made both and you found out about the .2, they did the right thing. I didn't read this whole thread carefully, so of course I could be wrong.

[pizanno]

Originally Posted by Moshiner1345

...the score/time keeper says on his score board control box at the table there is tenths of seconds, and when the whistle sounded there was .2 seconds left. But he couldn't stop the clock that fast.

so the scorer was looking at his console (not the play?!) when he heard the whistle and "SAW" 0.2 on his console (while the tenths of seconds were counting down?!)...and lacking superspeed reactions, he couldn't stop the clock before the horn sounds.

I call "shennanigans". sounds like Roger Clemens working the Tennessee table

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

5-6-2 Ex. 3 would back up calling it and leaving and Rule 5-10-1 in addition to applying Case play 5.10.1 Sit. D would back the ruling to add .2 back to the clock since it would be exact time observed by the timer which is also considered definitive knowledge.

Rule 5-10-1 and case book play 5.10.1SitD refer to timing mistakes. This isn't a timing mistake. The timer stopped the clock properly; he simply couldn't get the clock stopped instantaneously with the official's whistle. Rule 5-6-2EXCEPTION 3 allows for situations that occur like that at the end of a period and it directs us not to put any time back on the clock.

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by pizanno

so the scorer was looking at his console (not the play?!) when he heard the whistle and "SAW" 0.2 on his console (while the tenths of seconds were counting down?!)...and lacking superspeed reactions, he couldn't stop the clock before the horn sounds.

I call "shennanigans". sounds like Roger Clemens working the Tennessee table

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Twice this year the clock has showed zero with no horn and the scoreboard does not show tenths. I just calmly walk over to the table and ask if they have tenths on the box.

It doesn't matter whether the clock has tenths or not. If the clock isn't malfunctioning, the period isn't over until the horn goes. It doesn't matter if the clock shows all zeros.You put the ball back into play and keep playing to the horn.

Case book play 5.6 covers the play explicitly.